Help with the middle game

[Petracelli69]

Hi Guys

Play Civ 4 with Warlords and keep running into a common problem.

Firstly know all about the slingshot and heading for the Orcale and engineering the great person to complete the Pyramids and then set of towards Civil Service. My problem comes in forming a strategy after that re research and aims.

Am not looking for a blue print to do each time but keep finding my power graph levels of along with my points score behind the front runners.

Thanks for your views

regards

Phil

[Metaliturtle]

Power Graph... build more soldiers and research more military techs

Score doesn't mean a whole lot, but if you take over a couple other civs that tends to increase, see my first point

Depending on difficulty make about 1.5-2 units per unit an enemy has stationed in a city, then take the city, heal/promote, reinforce with more units and take the next city.

Make sure to raze and replant the cities when you take them or slave courthouses (if the city has wonders/shrines you want)

[gdgrimm]

Can you describe what your "problem" is?

How do you end up losing?

Getting behind in the power graph isn't necessarily a problem. I'm seldom at the top except sometimes when I start a war. Or, after I've reached a level of domination that the game is destined to be won.

So I wouldn't worry about not being at the top of the Power Graph.

Getting behind in tech isn't necessarily a problem either. Getting way behind in tech IS a problem. But being a few techs behind the AI isn't necessarily an issue.

[Petracelli69]

My problem is probalby best described as lacking a strategy after having raced for civil service.

Do you by that stage have an idea as to how your going to achieve victory be it domination conquest etc as i seem to just find my self floundering without direction.

No this is a bit vague but feel like my play could be improved alot.

Thanks

Phil

[Verrucosus]

The problem seems to me that so much depends on the specifics of your game situation after getting Civil Service that it's very hard to give any kind of general advice of what to do next.

Just in case you missed it, here's an excellent case study of a game (pre-1.61) that focuses on what to do after the slingshot:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148226

The key concept in that essay is the use of intermediate goals to help you forge your strategy. From the way you have described your problem in general terms, that may be a good approach to try out.

Good luck,
Verrucosus

[Thedrin]

It seems possible that your only strategy is the CS slingshot. No. When you start a game determine a different strategy. Then use the CS slingshot as a way to further that strategy. The CS slingshot is not an easy way to win - it is a way to make your win easier.

With Warlords the CS slingshot will soon be dead ( ).

Edit: Didn't read Verrucosus's post. I may just have repeated his advice.

[Diadem]

Perhaps it's a good idea to play a game (put the difficulty down one level from what you normally play) where you forbid yourself to build any wonders, or found any religion. Only ordinary buildings and military.

Forces you to try new strategies.

[Blake]

Usually in the middle game you want to go to war and gain some new territory. Your mid game should at least to some degree be directed towards your midgame expansion, CS Slingshot is often most useful when you have little expansion prospect - like it's a quick way to get Maces for a mid-game busting-out. CS Slingshot is often what I think of as a peninsula strat - you have a nice capital on a peninsula and room for one other city... after that you have to fight your way out, but there's jungle and stuff in the way. You may as well CS Slingshot, let the AI found some cities, then bust them with maces and catapults.

Strictly speaking, conquering isn't essential to win, but it WILL make any win, except cultural, easier. Not conquering is sometimes a luxury when you have a good start with room for expansion and the ability to grab strong wonders like Pyramids + Great Library. But other times conquering is the only way to get in a position of real strength.

[tyranny12]

Continuing this ancient thread...

Hey all, recently returned to Civ4.

I've been reading the guides here after running into Prince's bumped up difficultly in Warlords.

I think I've ironed out a good bunch of the kinks in my early game, but like the others, I'm having an impossible time of it on the mid-game.

My last game on Prince, everyone got Feudalism and Gunpowder ahead of me, even the two Civs left on my continent. With some judicious trading, I pulled back ahead, but it seems like there is always one civ on the other continent who is massively ahead. In this case, it was Asoka.

I was playing as the Koreans, did a modified imperial (by Vel's description) start, founded Hinduism, and took out the English. This hit my maint cap and I still had room, so Hannibal and Tokugawa got to have the other half of the continent.

After claiming the two (three, but one was worthless) English cities and two barbarian ones, with two new ones of mine on the edges, I found myself starting to fall behind.

I was trying to focus my mid-game on commerce maximization. Unfortunately, I failed to get almost every wonder (I realize now that it was Asoka and Roosevelt on the other island.) This didn't help my long-term viability.

The only mistake I know I made was getting the Oracle - in retrospect, it wasn't worth the 11 turns I would have needed to research metal casting, and CS was one tech away.

Overall, I figured I had no chance when Asoka moved to State Property and I was on Printing Press. He was some 800 points ahead of everyone else.

Any way people know of to beat the AI at economy mid-game?

Another thing I noted was that many AIs just didn't want to trade techs with me. They didn't like me, even if they were 'Pleased'

(Just started a new game - trying Spiritual, playing as Mansa. They plopped the English capital city literally three squares from my capital - our fat cross intersects.)

[wodan11]

Re: Continuing this ancient thread...

Originally posted by tyranny12 Any way people know of to beat the AI at economy mid-game?

Several things come to mind.

For one thing, you said you claimed a worthless city. Why in the world didn't you simply raze it? If all it does is add to your maintenance, then it was a bum deal.

Second, you said that you left a big chunk of your continent to the AI. Can't say without seeing your map, but often you can establish 1-2 cities further away to block off the continent and coast, and then close borders. Then, you can back-fill and settle the whole continent at your leisure.

What did you lightbulb with the Oracle? If you don't say Code of Laws, then there you go. CoL gives you early courthouses plus another shrine (= money).

Wodan

[tyranny12]

Regarding the worthless city, in retrospect I should have. It had two things that I wanted - it was the founding site of a religion - judaism I think - and silver. The silver would have stayed outside my borders.

That said, I probably should have razed it.

For keeping the other civs walled off with my cities, it's something I always try to do, but this continent was too big - I had hit my maint cap before even seeing the other half of the continent, and there was no choke point. I used the native stretch of jungle and just blockaded off the southern half.

Code of Laws was halfway researched when the Oracle popped. Otherwise I would've hit it.

---------

My latest game I did substantially better. I think focusing on a goal and not just random build up is key. I also had a great start, so I assume much is attributed to that.

Annoying that I could not get a great prophet to save my life in this game (missed the Oracle, and the priest specialists I had couldn't rival my scientists.)

It helped that by 1 AD I had conquered three foreign empire capitals, wiping out two of them. I've concluded that vassal states are annoying, as you can't completely conquer the empire before they're ready to capitulate.

[tyranny12]

Of course, it looks like I hadn't posted my original questions.

In looking at the retire timeline/landmap of my failed game, the AI all managed to pump out three settlers or more each shortly after I established my second city (which was the first) - then they expanded rapidly while I know I was dealing with the maintenance limit. (Shaka, for example, had five! cities at least when I had 2 and a third enroute.)

The questions I had on it were (mostly rhetorical, to set the stage):
Was I settling too late? I've learned not to settle too soon 9:. And how do they avoid all that maintenance limit stuff and always seem to have loads of units? Do they not build any buildings?

Whining about the AI isn't the point of my thread. What I want to know if that was just typical AI benefits, or if I was doing something wrong. Is that how it always works?