Possible overlook on vassal

[Risa]

It was in one of my games. I (Asoka) was pursuing cultural victory, having a small territory and armed force and a tech lead over all others except Brennus. Mehmed was my friendly neighbor with a moderate military. It also bordered on Monty, but not on Brennus. Brennus was the world leader of territory and military, vassal master of Washington.

Monty declared war on Mehmed and became a vassal of Brennus, dragging Brennus and Washington in. Being militaristic superior, the three would overrun Mehmed in a few turn, threating the safety of myself. So I stepped in to negotiate peace. I could not ask Monty or Washington to stop fighting, as they were vassals, but I can ask Mehmed to declare peace with them. And since they were vassals whose master was still in the war, no one could drag them into that war ever again.

It was proved to prolong the life of independent Ottoman considerably, buying enough time for my narrow escape to victory. I was able to achieve 50k culture only a few turns before my cultural city being took down in the eventual war with Brennus.

That should be fixed. As one can't negotiate war or peace with vassal state, he shouldn't be possible to ask another to negotiate war or peace with them, either.

[Solver]

Yes, there is a bunch of possible weird vassal situations, and you have one of them there. They're going to be fixed in the patch.

[Aro]

Patch? When?

[Solver]

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=156842

[Aro]

Thanks, Solver...

Originally posted by alexman
There will be a patch, but not before October.
We would have liked to release it earlier (it's ready), but there are scheduling conflicts with our QA.

These parts attracted my attention: "it's ready", "scheduling conflicts" and, last but not least, "not before October".

[Krill]

I would reckon that Blakes AI changes have changed the scheduling somewhat

[Solver]

Well Aro, I'm sure you can make some smart conclusions based on that post .

[Gibsie]

i.e. it'll be ready when it's ready

[Solver]

And it will be released when it's released .

[Diadem]

Yes, those are givens. But the major questions are:

Will it be released when ready?
And will it be ready when released?

[Saurus]

Originally posted by Krill
I would reckon that Blakes AI changes have changed the scheduling somewhat

Of course I myself would like to see Blakes awesome work included in a patch also. However, Blakes ongoing project is a "work in progress" and certainly will not be finished any time soon. (actually, A.I programming is a newer-ending task if one really want to achieve perfection)

If the patch will the be postponed up until Blake has twekaed, progammed and tested everyting he is coming up with, then we will probably not see a patch during the coming months.

Meanwhile, I still have invissible cows, stupid A.I that cannot handle vassal-agreements etc...
Theese bugs should really be adressed as soon as possible. Blakes improved A.I can be added at a later time - when the project is ready.

[Swiss Pauli]

Originally posted by Saurus
Blakes improved A.I can be added at a later time - when the project is ready.

Blake has mentioned elsewhere that some of his improvements will be featured in the patch.

[Saurus]

Originally posted by Swiss Pauli

Blake has mentioned elsewhere that some of his improvements will be featured in the patch.

I know and I find it a bit disturbing.
Every new item added to the patch have to be carefully playtested in order to find optimal balance and also in order to find bugs.
This actually should well be a process that lasts for months if done well and carefully.

Also, where to draw the line of what to include in a patch and what not?
For instance Blake certainly have improved the A.I. But the matter is not really that simple.
One should remember that CIV 4 was never supposed to have the perfect A.I. Rather the game was supposed to have A.I:s with personalities and I for one would not like to see A.I Ghandi whipping his own citizens constantly no matter how nice a strategy that would be.

This is not to discredit Blake. I think he is doing an awesome job. Yet I still would like to see a patch correcting the most urgent bugs as soon as possible. Unfortunetely some of the currently existing vassal-bugs for instance are severe enough to ruin a game compleatly so the patch fixing theese basic bugs would indeed be very much needed as soon as possible.

[Solver]

The patch has been carefully tested by a large enough number of people. Months for patch testing may be excessive sometimes, but it has now actually been months since Warlords got released.

Blake's AI absolutely retains AI personalities. Personalities and smart decisions are two different things. Blake's code takes into account the AI personality to decide, for example, which civics to use. Overall, though, that AI is noticeably smarter, due to much better city placement and worker AI.