Too easy, too hard...

[mkorin]

I normally shoot for an early state religion and try to convert my neighbors. Which does not always work. I'll have to try no religion.

Mike

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by mkorin
I normally shoot for an early state religion and try to convert my neighbors. Which does not always work. I'll have to try no religion.

Mike

If you don't go for an early religion you can get worker techs researched more quickly. Perhaps pick up a later religion like Philosophy's Taoism, and spread it if you can build a shrine. If not, I find settling a couple of Gt Merchants in what will eventually be the Wall St city is a decent alternative to spreading a religion for cash.

[jbp26]

Originally posted by mkorin
I normally shoot for an early state religion and try to convert my neighbors. Which does not always work. I'll have to try no religion.

Mike

religion is too important to have no religion. the only time i have no religion is when all my neighbors have different ones and im weaker. in every other case, its ludicrous to not have one. the happiness and relationship bonus alone makes it essentia, not to mention the bonus from your civics.

if you are a civ starting with mysticism, definitely go for buddhism or hinduism- for any other civ, i try to build the oracle and grab code of laws. very often i can do this before other religions spread around to me. the bonus of founding a religion early, when your neighbors dont have one, is that it will quickly spread to them and give you a spike in good relations.

i also feel its a good idea to use the oracle for code of laws, rather than civil service. i typically cannot beat the AI to hinduism, buddhism, or judiasm, and would always rather grab other techs first. having a religion is important for relations and can keep you safe from attack for a while at least, which i rely on so i can sacrifice military for infrastructure early on (this is very gamey, i am well aware). also, code of laws is a distant tech (from the start) that opens courthouses which are vital to expansion. even on noble, i am rarely able to research CoL before i finish the oracle, and if i wait i lose it to the AI.

[mkorin]

JBP, your views on religion in the game closely follow mine, but it was suggested that one way to make the neighbors like you is no religion. So, I may try it for a game or two.

I find I get Hinduism almost every game. If I research mysticism and polyism right away. As I'm building a worker at this time, it is a good time get this out of the way. The AIs usually shoot for Buddism and leave Hinduism for me.

Mike

[jbp26]

Originally posted by mkorin
JBP, your views on religion in the game closely follow mine, but it was suggested that one way to make the neighbors like you is no religion. So, I may try it for a game or two.

I find I get Hinduism almost every game. If I research mysticism and polyism right away. As I'm building a worker at this time, it is a good time get this out of the way. The AIs usually shoot for Buddism and leave Hinduism for me.

Mike

having no religion wont make them like you, it will leave them neutral. sharing a religion can give you anywhere from a +1 to a +7 modifier, which is often enough to keep them off your back for centuries.

i used to go the same route, for hinduism, since id be going for the oracle anyway and i needed the techs. i found, even on noble, i was only able to get it about 40% of the time.

these days, i almost always go for masonary first, so i can start on the great wall/pyramids asap. while those are building, ill work on the tech for the oracle, and bronze working for chopping. you will undoubtedly miss out on the early religions, but can probably snag confucism. in that way you also snag the 3 wonders. i can rountinely achieve this on prince, with a nonindustrious civ and no stone or marble.

i really prefer this route because great wall+pyarmids means you'll pop enough great engineers to steal almost any other wonder.

whatever the case, founding a religion or caputring a holy city is often vital to my financial game. once i have one, ill do anything i can to pop a great prophet, and then pour out missionaries. the influx of gold from the holy city is often solely responsible for vitalizing my economy.

[Thedrin]

Originally posted by jbp26
having no religion wont make them like you, it will leave them neutral. sharing a religion can give you anywhere from a +1 to a +7 modifier, which is often enough to keep them off your back for centuries.

The negative modifiers from having the wrong religion can make it not worth while - especially if two civs that get along with you quite well have different religions. Appeasing both when you only have one of their religions is a tough task (the AI doesn't seem to have a problem with it).

I rarely adopt an early religion anymore - the diplomatic fall out is usually too painful and the happiness earned from it (only in the cities with the religion) can be achieved in other ways. Spreading your religion to all your cities (and your neighbours) can often be too hammer consuming with little immeadiate benefit.

Only when I get to one of the religeous civics (and I don't go for Monotheism for a long time) do the benefits of adopting a state religion become tempting enough. By then it's no problem determining which religion will best aid my diplomacy.

Summary: religion is not too important to have no religion.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by jbp26
religion is too important to have no religion.

Religion is an option, but not essential. All the things that you can't do while researching and distributing religions are important too. There are many ways of playing this game, and a SPI civ which starts with Mysticism has more reason to for for Bud/Hind than others, but to insist that deploying an early religion is mandatory is to misunderstand the strategic depth of the game, in my opinion.

[jbp26]

Originally posted by Thedrin


The negative modifiers from having the wrong religion can make it not worth while - especially if two civs that get along with you quite well have different religions. Appeasing both when you only have one of their religions is a tough task (the AI doesn't seem to have a problem with it).

i already mentioned this. grabbing a religion early enough means it will spread to your neighbors, making a common religion much more likely. obviously i will switch to whatever religion is dominant among my neighbors, or no religion if its diverse- but i'll do my best to make sure its mine. this is relatively easy to achieve even without a single missionary. the difference relations provided by that common religion is often the only reason they are not at war with me.

[Dis]

Originally posted by jbp26


having no religion wont make them like you, it will leave them neutral. sharing a religion can give you anywhere from a +1 to a +7 modifier, which is often enough to keep them off your back for centuries.

i used to go the same route, for hinduism, since id be going for the oracle anyway and i needed the techs. i found, even on noble, i was only able to get it about 40% of the time.

these days, i almost always go for masonary first, so i can start on the great wall/pyramids asap. while those are building, ill work on the tech for the oracle, and bronze working for chopping. you will undoubtedly miss out on the early religions, but can probably snag confucism. in that way you also snag the 3 wonders. i can rountinely achieve this on prince, with a nonindustrious civ and no stone or marble.

i really prefer this route because great wall+pyarmids means you'll pop enough great engineers to steal almost any other wonder.

whatever the case, founding a religion or caputring a holy city is often vital to my financial game. once i have one, ill do anything i can to pop a great prophet, and then pour out missionaries. the influx of gold from the holy city is often solely responsible for vitalizing my economy.

40% On noble I can get it about 95% of the time.