Game analysis?

[Nohbody8]

I think I've finally found a civ and strat that work for me on Noble difficulty. If anyone's interested, I'd like some constructive criticism on my current game. I know that I'm supposed to attach the save game file but I'm unsure how to do that assuming anyone's even interested. Any assistance would be most appreciated. Thanks.

[Cort Haus]

When you use the 'Post Reply' button to get the full posting interface (not the quick reply box) there's an 'Attach File' section with a 'Browse' button. Use the Browse button to navigate to your savegame - and voila!

[Nohbody8]

Thanks. For anyone that is interested, it's a standard size archipelago map on Noble difficulty. I'm particularly interested in feedback regarding my tile development.

[Cort Haus]

I'll have a look later.

[Cort Haus]

Your basic problem is not enough cottages, specialists or happy resources. Your economy is hammer-heavy but you have a weak army and a weak GNP (check the F9 graphs).

You only have one commerce city - the floodplains one. It has Oxford, which is good, but has a ton of spare food getting worked while the growth lock is on. Come off the food tiles and you can run about 4 scientists and still work all the towns.

The game can be won, certainly at that level, with a small number of commerce tiles worked empire-wide if a lot of scientists are being hired, but you're not using specialists - you're working high food and hammer tiles while not building anything useful. You're building health improvements while well below the health caps, but your happy cap is choking your growth. Or, you're building research, which is OK when there's nothing else to do but you could be either building units to go sort out Washington, who's well ahead, and/or hiring scientists to improve your research.

The research is being slowed down by your slider, which is raking in cash - presumably for rush-buying but you don't need to do that, as you don't need the stuff you're building like Hospitals and Aquas when happiness and slow research is your problem.

Alexander has happy resources that you're not trading for. You could use your 1 Wheat or Corn to trade for one of those to immediately help, and use the culture slider to improve happiness so you can grow. If at the caps, don't allow cities to throw away 10+ food a turn when you can be working scientists.

You've made over a dozen GP's, but I don't see any settled Gt Scientists in the Oxford city, which is a shame. What did you produce, GP-wise, and what did you do with them?

You're also running Org Rel while not building anything you need, which is hurting you in various ways. Run Free Religion for a 10% research boost and more happiness in the cities with multiple religions. You need that happiness.

I have to stop now, but your problems started with not enough grassland cottages from early in the game, and too many hammers that you're not using usefully.

[Nohbody8]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
You've made over a dozen GP's, but I don't see any settled Gt Scientists in the Oxford city, which is a shame. What did you produce, GP-wise, and what did you do with them?

I generally use great people for an instant tech if they can't build some sort of building.

You're also running Org Rel while not building anything you need, which is hurting you in various ways. Run Free Religion for a 10% research boost and more happiness in the cities with multiple religions. You need that happiness.

I've never really sat down and done the math but I assumed it was better to be able to build improvements faster so I'd run out faster. That way, I could build research sooner. Does building research not convert that well?

[Nohbody8]

Originally posted by Cort Haus - you're working high food and hammer tiles while not building anything useful.

I generally leave what tiles are worked up to the computer. Am I going to have to start doing that if I plan on moving up in difficulty level?

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Nohbody8
I generally leave what tiles are worked up to the computer. Am I going to have to start doing that if I plan on moving up in difficulty level?

The Noble AI is, in the words of one maestro, retarded. Prince is the first real challenge, so don't think about moving up until you are dominating this level.

You can use the governer buttons for emphasising food, hammers or commerce. Emphasising all of them is almost always better than emphasising none of them. I can't remember how you had them set, but with all that spare food you could try emphasising science on its own in that game, and with all that spare food you should get loads of scientists.

It's not just about which tiles are worked, it's how they are improved. Most players use a cottage economy (CE) in their commerce towns, where all grassland tiles are cottages and worked so they grow, unless there is a very good reason for irrigating the grassland - like supporting a gold mine (though even that is not ideal, food specials are better for supporting low-food tiles).

A specialist economy (SE), uses farms and scientists extensively in commerce cities to generate research, ideally under Representation, but this is less popular, harder to master, and requires regular micromanagement.

With all that irrigation in that game, though, your best bet for improving research might be to start running scientists, as many as you can where you have all the science buildings - which is probably everywhere. Use Representation if possible - but with your low happies watch out for others running Emancipation. Try the science button with the Guv'nor on.

The alternative is to start building cottages, running the civic that speeds their growth (Emancipation), and letting them mature. That'll take a while though.

Keep some heavy hammer cities to build units as you main rival is well ahead in both tech and power, but stay on Research in others, after the scientists have been assigned, unless you want to attack the #1 soon, which you won't want to do as he's probabaly got infantry and lots of them.

I've never really sat down and done the math but I assumed it was better to be able to build improvements faster so I'd run out faster. That way, I could build research sooner. Does building research not convert that well?

The trouble with building research is that it doesn't go through all the multipliers, so although a hills mine will give 3 research and a food, the 3 research from a scientist will go through the lib and uni and observatory for an extra 75%.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Nohbody8
I generally use great people for an instant tech if they can't build some sort of building.

Settled scientists in the main science city (all imps + Oxford + Academy) and lots of commerce or scientists are very strong. Lightbulbing tech makes for strong slingshots at some points in the game (eg: Civil Service, Philosophy) but shouldn't be used on cheap techs, or when you can research it at a canter.

Personally I prefer to have a strong tech rate via the economy and settle the GP's until near the end of the game.

[Nohbody8]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
I can't remember how you had them set, but with all that spare food you could try emphasising science on its own in that game, and with all that spare food you should get loads of scientists.

I had all three of them on so I did something right.

Most players use a cottage economy (CE) in their commerce towns, where all grassland tiles are cottages and worked so they grow, unless there is a very good reason for irrigating the grassland - like supporting a gold mine (though even that is not ideal, food specials are better for supporting low-food tiles).

How are you supposed to keep up in production if everything is cottaged? Is the idea to have a few production powerhouses rather than a lot of decent production cities?

I think what's really holding me back is my prediliction for world wonders. I don't know if you've noticed but I've built them all except Stonehenge, the Parthenon, Versailles, and the Kremlin. That's where my preference for production comes in.

[Nohbody8]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
Personally I prefer to have a strong tech rate via the economy and settle the GP's until near the end of the game.

And then what do you do?

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Nohbody8
How are you supposed to keep up in production if everything is cottaged? Is the idea to have a few production powerhouses rather than a lot of decent production cities?

Yes. Perhaps two or three cities focus on units and don't bother about cottages - they can irrigate grassland to support mines. Nor do they need to build commerce buildings.

Commerce cities may have some mines, and hopefully a food special to support them, but unless there is a commerce building available to be built they work the cottages. Or, poprush the commerce buildings under slavery.

If you have an 'independent income' ie - religious shrine gold or settled merchants, you may not even need 'gold' buildings in all the commerce cities - just research ones. If you have no independent income, then the tax slider is needed, and mkts & grocers & banks are more useful in all the commerce cities. They may be needed for health and happies, though.

Build mkts & grocers & banks & Wall St in the shrine city, and settle Gt Merchants in the Wall St city.

I think what's really holding me back is my prediliction for world wonders. I don't know if you've noticed but I've built them all except Stonehenge, the Parthenon, Versailles, and the Kremlin. That's where my preference for production comes in.

I hadn't checked that. Wonders are not nearly as powerful as in previous civ-games, though there are still some good ones, and many strategies revolve around a key wonder. Breaking mass wonder-addiction is important, though. The National Wonders are actually more powerful than the World Wonders in many cases.

Civ 4 is about balancing food, hammers and commerce. In Civ 2 & 3 commerce was a no-brainer, as it came in from the roads on the food & shield tiles. In Civ 4 you have to sacrifice something for it. Lack of cottages is usually the main problem for new players.

[jbp26]

Originally posted by Nohbody8
How are you supposed to keep up in production if everything is cottaged? Is the idea to have a few production powerhouses rather than a lot of decent production cities?

specialize your cities. commerce cities dont need every improvement, so the decrease in production doesn't really matter.

I think what's really holding me back is my prediliction for world wonders. I don't know if you've noticed but I've built them all except Stonehenge, the Parthenon, Versailles, and the Kremlin. That's where my preference for production comes in.

only a few wonders are really worth building, the rest you can just capture. i always try to build the oracle, and its fairly easy with some chopping, to grab a deep tech- usually metal casting, feudalism, or code of laws. the exception is if i start near stone, in which case i will do anything possible to build the great wall and the pyramids ASAP. getting both of those means you will pop enough great engineers to pick and choose whatever wonders you want. i like the great library (mostly to generate an academy), parthenon, and statue of liberty, personally. but for the most part, you wont even notice not having htem.

[Nohbody8]

Considering the game would practically be over by the time my cottages fully matured, I applied some band-aids. I was pleasantly surprised with the results. Take a gander.

[Cort Haus]

That looks better - research is up from 613 to 960 bpt, even while building factories instead of research. I doubt there's time to build a Space Ship, but you could maybe win on points if you can get ahead on tech. You can get Artillery by trade.

In fact you can trade some spare resources for cash and have enough gold to run a slight defecit at 80% to get to 1025 research. You might even be able to trade your wheat to Alex instead of paying cash for his happy resource - if you can afford. 24gpt + Coal is expensive - I don't know why he values your coal so low.