Unused Civ trait combos

[EternalSpark]

EDIT: I should say I did a search on this, couldnt find anything... but I wouldn't be surprised if this was done before. If so, I'm worry.

So, I was working on a cheat-sheet to show me all the possible trait combos, and I realized that not all traits were used in all possible combinations. Now, unless I completely botched it up, here's the ones that don't exist:

Aggressive/Charismatic (Bah-roken)
Aggressive/Organized
Charismatic/Creative
Charismatic/Industrious
Charismatic/Philosophical
Creative/Expansive
Creative/Financial
Creative/Philosophical
Creative/Protective
Expansive/Financial
Expansive/Imperialistic
Financial/Organized
Imperialistic/Industrious
Imperialistic/Philosophical
Imperialistic/Protective
Imperialistic/Spiritual
Industrious/Philosophical
Organized/Protective
Philosophical/Protective

Obviously, some of these were in Vanilla, and some of these were the ones Never To Expect Because They Would Be Bah-Roken. However, since most of you guys are a bit more Civ-skilled than I, which ones would you like to see? which ones would be too broken to consider? Which would be the weakest? What historical figures do you think would fit some of these? Which current Empires would do well to have another Leader with these traits?

Obviously, a lot of questions. But I figured, why not ask?

[Nikolai]

IIRC, Industrious/Philosophical is seen to be way overpowered.

[Senethro]

Re: Unused Civ trait combos

Aggressive/Charismatic <--- I would still like to see this, maybe with a so-so UU/UB.
Aggressive/Organized <--- Big loss, this.
Charismatic/Creative
Charismatic/Industrious
Charismatic/Philosophical <--- I'd like to see this one.
Creative/Expansive <---Cyrus old trail, not particularly good.
Creative/Financial <--- This one was fun, like an easy-mode. You didn't need to think to use the traits.
Creative/Philosophical
Creative/Protective <--- Best defense bonus in cities.
Expansive/Financial <--- Vicky's old trait, no big loss.
Expansive/Imperialistic
Financial/Organized <--- Another lost synergy.
Imperialistic/Industrious
Imperialistic/Philosophical
Imperialistic/Protective
Imperialistic/Spiritual
Industrious/Philosophical <--- Would this still be broken in Warlords?
Organized/Protective
Philosophical/Protective

[JackRudd]

"Industrious/Philosophical <--- Would this still be broken in Warlords?"

With even more Wonders, one of which grants early Great Engineer points? Uh, yes.

[Arrian]

Yeah, IND/PHI would be very broken.

I do miss ORG/FIN. I'd like to see a SPI/IMP civ.

-Arrian

[Common Sensei]

Re: Re: Unused Civ trait combos

Originally posted by Senethro
Aggressive/Charismatic <--- I would still like to see this, maybe with a so-so UU/UB.

This is Industrious/Philosophical and Financial/Organized level synergy, and would probably be overpowered. Cheap promotions with Combat I already in the bank for some of the units would be a juggernaut. When we learned about the new traits when Warlords was coming out, I thought Alexander or Napoleon would get this combo.

Originally posted by Senethro
Creative/Philosophical

I could see Thomas Jefferson with this, had he been in the game (he was listed in that survey way back when before Warlords was even announced).

[Stexe]

First off, Aggressive & Charismatic isn't that cheap, there is already Protective & Charismatic (Churchill) and that works fine. There IS someone with Aggressive & Charismatic already, Marquis Duquesne has it. He is found in the Omen's scenario, you just can't play with him in non-modded multiplayer :-P

Aggressive & Charismatic would probably be Hitler, if Firaxis ever got the balls to make him and lose sales in Germany. I mean they made Stalin (Russia) who killed more people than Hitler, why can't they be fair to Germany by creating the man who helped get Germany out of their depression and recess? I REALLY do hope they add him in the next expansion pack, otherwise I probably won't buy it.

The only truly overpowered trait is Industrial & Philosphoical. Think about it this way. Industrial lets you build wonders faster that give great people points. Philosphical lets you get great people faster which can be used to advance your wonder production. Rinse and repeat and you get a huge advantage.

[Blake]

FIN/ORG doesn't have synergy. It's just both bonuses added together in a normal way. It is a bit... "One track mind", like Agg/Pro, really.

I'd say AGG/ORG has synergy because agg = conquest and org = profitable expansion and when you combine these you have lots of fun.

I would LOVE to see more imperialistic leaders, especially Imp/Ind, Imp/Exp ( ) and Imp/Pro. Imp/Ind would be especially fun.

I'd like a Phi/Pro leader too (that'd be like a more defensive alexander), in fact in terms of gameplay I'd rather Saladin be Phi/Pro than Spi/Pro.

[JackRudd]

Cre/Phi would be broken with Warlords - the Great Wall would just combine wonderfully well with that trait pair.

[padillah]

I've heard Ind/Phi is overpowered but no one ever says why. Well, why?

I don't see it (which is probably why I'm too dumb to win the darn game).

Tom P.

[Diadem]

I'd love to see charismatic / philosophical. Would be a lot of fun to play

But probably a bit overpowered. Not because those two traits synergize in a spectacular way (though they synergize well) but simply because they are the two most powerful traits already.

[MasterDave]

Originally posted by padillah
I've heard Ind/Phi is overpowered but no one ever says why. Well, why?

I don't see it (which is probably why I'm too dumb to win the darn game).

Tom P.

Philosophical can be a very powerful pick when you either have

1) Lots of Surplus food for speicialists
2) Lots of Wonders generating GPP's

There is risk in Philosophical in that it can be a wasted attribute if you have neither 1 nor 2. If you are also able to pick Industrious, then you have a much better chance at the wonders, especially the early wonders and are far more likely to get tons more GPP's.

I do not think that this combination is unbalancing in itself, but it can be an extremeley effective combination in games where the other players or the AI allows a player breathing room to wonder whore.

[Blake]

With Philo it's possible to make use of the other aspect of the trait - making the most of a minimal amount of GPP, like 3 gpp from a single scientist (low food) or 2 engineer gpp from pyramids (the only early GE source, in vanilla). Granted this tends to work best when you have another trait you can leverage full time - for example Aggressive, you can spent most your resources on units while getting a useful yield from token GPP. This is probably how Ind/Phi would work, you'd focus on Ind and let Phi boost the relatively low wonder gpp to cosmic proportions. Phi is one of those unique traits which provides a good benefit regardless of how little you invest into it (in fact I can't think of another trait which compares in this regard).

[MasterDave]

Originally posted by Blake
With Philo it's possible to make use of the other aspect of the trait - making the most of a minimal amount of GPP, like 3 gpp from a single scientist (low food) or 2 engineer gpp from pyramids (the only early GE source, in vanilla). Granted this tends to work best when you have another trait you can leverage full time - for example Aggressive, you can spent most your resources on units while getting a useful yield from token GPP. This is probably how Ind/Phi would work, you'd focus on Ind and let Phi boost the relatively low wonder gpp to cosmic proportions. Phi is one of those unique traits which provides a good benefit regardless of how little you invest into it (in fact I can't think of another trait which compares in this regard).

You do not really have to invest in expansive, either, per se. Everybody wants to grow their population, and depending on how many food resources you have or can trade for, you either get mileage out of the increase in health or not.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by padillah
I've heard Ind/Phi is overpowered but no one ever says why. Well, why?

I don't see it (which is probably why I'm too dumb to win the darn game).

Tom P.

Double GPP from all those wonders you build with your IND trait. As someone who is wonder-happy (and thus loves IND civs), the idea of IND/PHI makes me salivate.

It would fit very well with my playstyle in SP games... build lotsa wonders and get my GP from them. I very rarely set up GP pump cities. I may run a specialist or two in cities with wonders to boost the GP rate or effect the odds of a specific type of GP being "born" but that's usually it. Obviously if I'm running Mercantalism I'll have a token specialist per city... but usually my citizens are working tiles. Thus, if you double the GP points I'm getting from wonders, you basically double my GP points... period. Yummy!

-Arrian