Are Chariots too Cheap?

[MasterDave]

I have been a frequent victim of Cheezeball Chariot rushes in multiplayeciv 4, dating back to long before Warlords came out. The reason that the Chariot rush has always been so effective for those lucky civs that get horses early, is that the Chariots cost the same as archers, move quickly, and can often wear down even well defended cities through sheer numbers. Their withdraw ability allows the rush to sustain itself since 25% of them survive while weakening a defender.

I contend that now that warlords is out and Chariots are +100% when attacking axemen, that they are now on equal footing in terms of effectiveness with Spearmen and Axemen, and should cost the same number of shields. However, they still are as cheap as archers. The result is that chariots are the new superunit, and chariot rushes are even more powerful now, as they will run right over axemen defenders. Also, chariots are the super-cheap counter to barbarians. Chariots also retain their speed and withdraw chance that they had before warlords.

I think that in order to balance out Chariots (and reduce the number of cheezeball chariot rushes), that they should cost as much as axemen and spearmen. What do you guys think?

[Blaupanzer]

Build spearmen or die!

[zeace]

And the Chariots can sneak in and hit your metal at the start of the war so you can't make any new spears...

[Virdrago]

Spearman on top of the metal, one in the city. To start. If you think that's what will happen, of course.

I think chariots are fine as they are. Historically, they were pretty cheap and useful. Even RL "barbarians" had them.

Good thing the first mounted barb unit is the horse archer. I play with raging barbs on. If there was a chariot, it would be showing up earlier, and it would be very effective against my axemen taking out those annoying warriors and archers squatting in my territories.

[MoonWolf]

Well, there is a reason why horses have been beneficial in war for a long, long time... Players starting next to a certain resource will of course alway have an advantage over users who don't. Think if you find oil and they not...

[Tattila the Hun]

Weren't chariots the superunit in Civ aswell? Back to the roots.

[couerdelion]

If they are cheap then perhaps it makes sense to build more of them

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
Weren't chariots the superunit in Civ aswell? Back to the roots.

Damn right they were in Civ 1. No hit points either so they never stopped.

[MasterDave]

Historically, chariots may have been cheap to build, but why would they be cheaper than giving a bunch of guys sticks with pointy bits of bronze on the end??

I maintain that they should cost the same as Axemen and Spearmen.

The worst part of the cheezeball chariot rush is that the chariots sometimes arrive before you even find a bronze or iron deposit that you can use. Chariots being dirt cheap increases the likelihood of this.

[Cort Haus]

I tried my first Chariot rush recently against the AI (Monarch) and was amazed at how cheap, quick and effective it was compared to an Axe rush. The tech is cheaper, the unit is cheaper (though you might need a few more), it gets there quicker, and can sometimes survive a defeat.

I don't play MP, but if I did I'd probably agree that they are too cheap, after the first couple of mashings by chariot-wheel. The Axe did need a counter, and there was a feeling that Bronze Working was by far and away the best ancient tech, but perhaps the scales have tipped too far the other way.

[OzzyKP]

They still get torn up by spearmen. Spears are a more effective counter vs. chariots than chariots are vs. ax.

I don't think chariots are overpowered at all.

[Saurus]

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
Weren't chariots the superunit in Civ aswell? Back to the roots.

Actually I think it was the Catapult.

[Thedrin]

If you have axemen then you have spearmen as well. If you don't have axemen then chariots are no more dangerous to you than they were in Vanilla.

Besides, the chariot bonus against axemen only counts if the chariot is attacking. Chariots don't recieve defensive bonuses so axemen should usually beat them when attacking (war chariot excluded).

[Blaupanzer]

Originally posted by Saurus


Actually I think it was the Catapult.

Roger that. The key unit in Civ1 prior to the middle ages was the catapult. The chariot was a great unit for making your opponents miserable, but the cats were the killers.

[Dis]

I might have to try a chariot rush in my games. I never have. But it seems to early to be taking cities, as the maintenance will kill my research.