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Tech overflow bad in 1.61

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  • Tech overflow bad in 1.61

    To start off, some terminology. A "beaker" (yeah, it's really a flask, but it's waaaaay too late to change colloquial usage) is the unit of research you see in the city screen or commerce advisor. An "RP" (short for "research point") is what actually gets invested in the current research project. I can't blame the game for using the same icon for both, but for the purpose of this discussion it's necessary to be aware of these as separate concepts.


    Normally, a beaker is worth 1.2 or more RP, varying mostly on the number of optional prerequisites you've researched. Before the 1.61 patch, if you had more beakers than necessary to complete the current project, all the beakers would still be converted to RP under the current multiplier, and the RP overflow would carry over to the next project. You could game this system by deliberately creating large overflows when you were getting an unusually high multiplier.

    Example:
    You are 41 RP from researching Writing, with all three prerequisites so you get a multiplier of 1.6. Your next research project will be Code of Laws, at a multiplier of 1.2. Your normal research level is 26 beakers per turn. Sticking with it, you finish Writing next turn (26 beakers * 1.6 = 41.6 RP, round down to 41), and put 31 RP (26 beakers * 1.2 = 31.2 RP, round down to 31) into Code of Laws the following turn. If you deliberately decrease your investment this turn to 25 beakers, though, you'll be 1 RP from Writing next turn, and have 40 RP overflow into Code of Laws the following turn (after you return to your normal research level). You gained 9 RP by investing less!

    Understandably, Firaxis thought this was sick and wrong, and attempted to fix it in the 1.61 patch. But the change was misimplemented in a way that usually increases, not decreases, the importance of micromanagement. The quick summary is that you almost always lose at least 1/6 of your overflow, so you are compelled to micromanage every tech advance to minimize overflow, as you had to do in the bad old days.

    Details:
    Let's return to the scenario where you're 1 RP from Writing with all three prerequisites, and invest 26 beakers.

    The game now computes how many of those beakers actually need to go into Writing. 1 RP/1.6 = 0.625 beaker, round up to 1. So only 1 more beaker is needed, and 25 beakers overflow to the next project. So far so good; the old bug has been fixed!

    But next turn, your 25 overflow beakers will be converted to only 25 RP, regardless of what the current beakers -> RP conversion rate is! Investing one less beaker cost you 6 RP, instead of the 1 or 2 that would be appropriate. This sounds like small change, but later in the game you tend to have much larger overflows, so micromanagers who consistently reduce their research rate on the last turn of research (or the first turn of research as the case may be, but let's not go there) can accumulate an advantage of a few thousand RP.


    I am running vanilla Civ4 1.61, with Blake's Slavery fix. On the off chance that others with 1.61 don't have this problem, maybe the problem is with Blake's fix; I don't think he touched this part of the game, though. I'm curious if the same bug occurs in Warlords; I would think so, since I didn't see anyone bring it to Firaxis' attention between 1.61 and Warlords.

    If anyone could use the SDK and release a quick patch for this, that would be very welcome.

  • #2
    Are you certain about this being flawed logic?

    I'll test it and see if I can confirm this.

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    • #3
      Wow you're right. Overflow isn't adjusted for discounts.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Blake
        Are you certain about this being flawed logic?

        I'll test it and see if I can confirm this.
        Yes, I am certain it's flawed.

        Comment


        • #5
          The inexplicable thing is the code is actually correct for when it calculates the turns remaining - it's wrong for when it actually does the research.
          Fortunately it should also be completely trivial to fix, I'm compiling now and will quickly test it to make sure it works as expected.
          Last edited by Blake; September 13, 2006, 10:20.

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          • #6
            Okay you have your bugfix.


            The crazy thing is that I HAVE seen this bug, several times in my playing experience I remember watching as I end the turn, the research bar SHRINKING - as the projected amount was larger than the actual (bugged) amount. It's just pretty darn rare for this to actually happen. I've always dismissed it as something else...
            Last edited by Blake; September 13, 2006, 11:33.

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            • #7
              Blake!

              -=Vel=-
              The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Blake
                Okay you have your bugfix.
                http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=157232

                The crazy thing is that I HAVE seen this bug, several times in my playing experience I remember watching as I end the turn, the research bar SHRINKING - as the projected amount was smaller than the actual (bugged) amount. It's just pretty darn rare for this to actually happen. I've always dismissed it as something else...
                Thanks!!

                Yeah, I also noticed the shrinking research bar several months ago, and assumed it was just some harmless cosmetic side-effect of fixing the previous state of affairs. I didn't expect them to get the graphics right and the actual calculation wrong...
                Last edited by Dog of Justice; September 13, 2006, 21:44.

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                • #9
                  Thanks; I was wondering why I on the turn after I finished a tech that the turn count to the next tech stayed the same instead of decreasing.
                  1st C3DG Term 7 Science Advisor 1st C3DG Term 8 Domestic Minister
                  Templar Science Minister
                  AI: I sure wish Jon would hurry up and complete his turn, he's been at it for over 1,200,000 milliseconds now.

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