Builderstrats

[ariano_paluda]

I've been trying to do a peaceful builder strategy, since I don't want it to be necessary to be a warmonger. I dislike quick wars, and want it to be possible to own the AI with minimal use of the millitary.

Therefore I've devised a couple of strategies to try to achieve that end: a specialist based economy versus a cottage based economy. I like the specialist approach more, since it's faster to recuperate from an attack than a cottage based economy, and you get more specialists.

In the games I've tried, I've ended in last place technologically every time, even though I think I've been fairly fast (I'm playing prince) I've made sure that no AI's are trading techs, and it's still not possible to beat them.

any pointers??

AP

[Proteus_MST]

Depends on the diff-Level you are playing.

With Noble, Huge Maps, Marathon Speed I am normally at least equal to the AI Civs without waging early aggressive wars (only the occasional defensive war against neighbors who don´t want to live in peace with me). And this all without disallowing tech trading.

If you are playing at higher difficulties the AI normally gets major advantages against the player (making a builder strategy appearing less useful).

As for other reasons why the AI can be more successful than yourself:
-Having more room to expoand
-Having better terrain
-Having more trading partners with whom they can trade resources

and of course (perhaps most important)
-being able to found multiple religions and get the necessary holy shrines for them and of course sending out missionaries to convert the heathens (which, of course, gives a lot of money)

[MikeH]

Why disable tech trading? It's a lot easier to keep up in techs if you are trading with the AIs. You can research one tech they don't have and trade it for several others with all the AIs.

On any level above Noble the AI gets bonuses that will mean it's really hard for you to keep up without intelligent trading and/or Warmongering.

[Cort Haus]

Up to Prince it's fairly easy to win a Space Race without launching any wars. On Monarch it's do-able if you have a great start-location with plenty of room to expand peacefully, or if you manipulate the AI into wars with each other to slow their tech down. Elite players (like Dominae) have even beaten Emperor peacefully. In that game he used Egypt's Obelisk to generate a prophet for Civil Service, rather than the usual Stonehenge or Oracle.

If you're running a specialist economy, Representation makes a massive difference. Whether Cottage or Specialist, having Oxford + all science buildings in the Capital under Bureaucracy with the Gt Lib and several settled super-scientists should ensure a handsome tech-lead on Prince. Use any of the slingshot variants to make early leaps to strong boosters like Civil Service, and be the first to Liberalism. If you have a religion, spread it and build all wealth multipliers + Wall Street in the Shrine city. If no religion, three or four settled Gt Merchants in the Wall St city is a good alternative.

btw - there's a strategy forum for strategy discussions.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by MikeH
Why disable tech trading? It's a lot easier to keep up in techs if you are trading with the AIs. You can research one tech they don't have and trade it for several others with all the AIs.

Maybe he feels that the AI is doing more business with each other than him, but I agree - there's no need to disable trading on that level.

I expect the OP needs more worked cottages in his empire if he is behind on Prince. Or, his diplo has gone wrong and no-one will trade with him. If so, he may need to work on the diplo - picking a side and sticking with it.

[ariano_paluda]

[SIZE=1]

btw - there's a strategy forum for strategy discussions.

I didn't post it at strategy because this forum specifically has civ4-warlords as topic, and since it was warlords I'm playing I figured this would be the place to post..

Anyway, I've tried the great prophet slingshot, but I couldn't lightbulb civil service until I'd gotten through theology first. And Great people don't hang on trees (unless you're philosophic). My fav philosophic civ has been changed (arabians) so I don't play them much anymore. The reason I try this in the first place (and that I disable tech trading) is that I figured it should be possible to beat the AI tech wise, being human, and being able to plan better. But when I put my theories to the test, they fail.

I think I'll post some screenshots....any "Key" dates I should consider?

AP

[Cort Haus]

The strat forum covers Warlords too.

Avoid researching Masonry and you can lightbulb CS without having to go through Monotheism and Theology.

Prophets don't grow on trees, but they do grow on Stonehenge, the Oracle, Priests from temples, and the Egyptian Obelisk.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by ariano_paluda
My fav philosophic civ has been changed (arabians) so I don't play them much anymore.
AP

Gandhi is the new Saladin. The perfect builder UU, too.

[cf_nz]

I play on Noble level as a builder, I will very rarely initiate a war. I do tend to get attacked a lot as I neglect military to favour building. Military costs money which could be spent on science. More money = more science.

I pretty much always lead in tech until late in the game.

I tend to favour a cottage based approach with specialists only when my cities hit their happiness, or healthness limit.

I always adopt representation; I always build the Pyramids to get it early; it will only make a small difference as I don't have heaps of specialists.

Once my great prophets have build any specialist religious buildings I use them as super specialists for the +5 gold.

I always max my research rate.

I tend to play industrious civs for the wonder bonus.

I don't really know what else I do specifically. You're playing a higer difficulty which will make a difference but hopefully not that much.

Proteus_MST has good points.

Make you civ as big as possible, overlap cities if need be (but not by too much). The best example I had of this was in my last game. I attacked early for a change to secure a continent to myself, it crippled me financially and technologically. Once I had things up and running though I rapidly overtook the AI again in techs.

[ariano_paluda]

Nevermind the screenshot idea...

I used the prophet slingshot, and it secured my dominance for a long time. But to truly be a builder, you must remove the barbarians from the equation = great wall. But to get it, you need masonry...I tried a couple of games without the great wall, versus one where I had the great wall. It's a big difference, since you can let your workers do their thing, without risking to be interrupted. and you don't HAVE to put a lot of defenders into your cities = more build time for wonders and buildings. And I know that most of you guys have tried losing a wonder race one turn before completion. I know I have, and I know how annoying it is.

Another approach I've tried, is using a cha/exp civ, to get big cities earlier than the others. More people translates into more specialists, which, in turn, translates into more beakers, money etc. The two extra happiness from cha, is really a big help early on: two more gold mines, two more specialists, two more mines. I believe it'll be possible to outproduce a small industrious civ given the same circumstances (marble/stone, religion, forge) after all, it's only a 50% bonus they recieve.

It works...at least in my mind, I haven't been very successful in it yet

thanks for the replies..the prophet slingshot is a valuable tool. Using the Egyptians has made it very easy I actually believe that the arabians will be able to pull it off as well, since they have writing in easy reach..

AP