Naval aspects

[Tattila the Hun]

Aye, but the germans during Overlord had a chance at attacking the firsts wave, destroying it, and reinforcing the defense. Essentially, destroying the first unit to land, and then fortifying some units on that beachhead, in Civ terms. Opportunity fire, or movement.

(I think making a landing on a hill should give some penalties... It's not that easy. Take Overlord again, there are only few places on the whole coast to use for a proper landing. Beaches and such. You don't want the whole of your army doing the climbing thing at the start of the COD2 american campaign.)

And how big is one Civ unit? Division? They didn't land the whole 1 million army on the first day of Overlord. Civ timescale is a bit too large for any true tactical warfare, though.

Maybe they could design an optional tactical part...

[Dis]

Yeah it took weeks to get sizable numbers of troops into France. But of course, at the most 1 turn=1 year. So yes You could unload an entire transport.

it's just a drawback of a turn based game. Something we have to deal with if we want turned base and not real time. But as I and others mentioned, it would be nice to have a chance at some "opportunity fire"

[Krill]

First of all, in Overlord there was so much less in Normandy compared to Calais it was unreal. Rather stupid way to spread the troops out in hindsight.

Secondly, it would have taken time to move the Panzer divisions from the researve in Calais to Normandy. The Panzers couldn't have moved from Calais to hit the first wave of invaders and stop the Invasion right at the start.

Thirdly, and most importantly, realism takes a back seat to gameplay in CIV. Units, Time, Production, all of it is, fortunately, arbitrary .

[MasterDave]

It is already quite hard to make an invasion stick against a strong opponent on another continent. Limiting transports to landing one unit a turn would make it nigh impossible. Even as it is, the AI is largely incapabable of a blue water invasion that cannot be easily fought off.

[CerberusIV]

Maybe I'm just not good enough. (Or I just don't like the support costs of that much military, or hate being pillaged)

Thinking a bit more about this there are two things that do irritate me. The first is the 10% defence bonus for coastal tiles. So an invader turns up on my coastline where my ships captains have better charts and local pilots whilst the opposition don't have a clue yet they get a bonus. Would be better if the bonus only applied to coastal tiles within your own cultural radius.

The second one is that it isn't possible to build better ships than your enemies until drydocks (unless you use a GG as military instructor in Warlords). It would be nice to have a small wonder - the Royal Dockyard. It should require x number of harbours (like the FP requires x courthouses or Oxofrd requires x universities) so that only civs with a strong maritime presence can build it. Benefits could be 25% faster ship builds, ships get 3 XP or ships get one or two free promotions (Combat I and Flanking I?) or a combination of these. Since naval domination goes back to Athenian triremes defeating the Persians it could be available as early as Sailing.

[Tattila the Hun]

I support Royal Dockyard.

[Virdrago]

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
I support Royal Dockyard.

I agree. I like both ideas, actually. Why would a ship that has just shown up on your doorstep have better knowledge of your coast?

[MasterDave]

Perhaps the coastal bonus should only apply within one's own cultural borders...

[Tattila the Hun]

I'd imagine, that +1 to movement inside one's borders could be justifiable, also. Know the shores and that.

[sparkyal]

The Royal Dockyard is a great idea. I think either the 25% faster build or the free promotions would be the way to go there.

As for costal defense? I'd like to know why it was put in in the first place. I can understand if you know the waters well you may get a slight advantage.

sparky

[allybhoy]

could make it ships could only move 2 spaces in an enemy's coastal waters, so an enemy cant declare war, enter, land troops and escape the same turn

[Dis]

I don't agree with that. You just have to be prepared for this ****.

The japanese could have easily landed troops in Hawaii if they had the capacity. It's not like we had time to prepare for it.

[CerberusIV]

Originally posted by Dis
The japanese could have easily landed troops in Hawaii if they had the capacity. It's not like we had time to prepare for it.

That's the exception - and due to modern technology. Most examples in human military history are of war being declared and any invasion following up later. Surprise invasions only really became possible with railways, steamships and the internal combustion engine. Before then a spy could get home with a warning by horse or fast sailing ship before an invasion could arrive (one person can always travel faster than an army can march or a large fleet can sail).

The espionage side of Civ could do with some work. A percentage chance for a diplomatic advisor to pop up and say an Aztec invasion fleet has sailed would be nice - and more helpful than just knowing Monty is pissed with you.

[Addled Platypus]

I have seen more naval units beeing built/loaded/moved in civ4 in two games, then all of the games in civ3

but still useless

anyone seen an AI carrier ?

[Tattila the Hun]

Plenty, though, they allways have just one fighter, and one escort...