Irritated about the Apollo Program

[sparkyal]

Ok, I have argued with myself for a long time about this, so I'm finally bringing this up to the experts.

how in the world can you have the Apollo Program without learning flight? It really, really bothers me that you can build the Apollo program before you can discover flight. this is just wrong. There is no way that you would have the technical knowledge of how to launch a rocket into space without first knowing how to fly.

Yes, I know the Chinese had "rockets" before flight came around. those were short ranged weapons, nothing like lauanching a space vehicle. Yes, the Germans had the V-1, but they also had planes at that time. And the V-1 could hardly get into space. IMO, I think you shouldn't get the Apollo Program before you have flight and rocketry. Waht do you all think?

sparky

[Will9]

I think flight should always be a requirement for rocketry.

[johnmcd]

I think computers should be a requirement for the Apollo programme, it's inconceiveable that anyone could deal with such complex issues and flight controls without that sort of computational ability.

Also, you should need Steam Power as a pre-requisite for the Pyramids, not Masonary, there is no other way to shift that sort of mass of stone, those things are man made mountains!

[Mace]

Originally posted by johnmcd
Also, you should need Steam Power as a pre-requisite for the Pyramids, not Masonary, there is no other way to shift that sort of mass of stone, those things are man made mountains!

What!!!!?????!

[ElConejo]

Originally posted by johnmcd
Also, you should need Steam Power as a pre-requisite for the Pyramids, not Masonary, there is no other way to shift that sort of mass of stone, those things are man made mountains!

I am going to second Mace on this one:

WHAT!?

[Will9]

Also, you should need Steam Power as a pre-requisite for the Pyramids, not Masonary, there is no other way to shift that sort of mass of stone, those things are man made mountains!

The Pyramids were built without the wheel and you say we need Steam Power.

I'll third this. What the heck.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Will9

Also, you should need Steam Power as a pre-requisite for the Pyramids, not Masonary, there is no other way to shift that sort of mass of stone, those things are man made mountains!

The Pyramids were built without the wheel and you say we need Steam Power.

I'll third this. What the heck.

I'm pretty sure that he was joking... pointing out that humans have done the seemingly impossible before, and that we shouldn't rule things out. Though logically you couldn't have a space program without computers or conventional powered flight, it would also seem to be reasonable that you couldn't create the pyrimids without using engine powered equipment.

Basically, it was a sly way to tell people complaining about the tech tree to STFU

[LordShiva]

Re: Irritated about the Apollo Program

Originally posted by sparkyal
Ok, I have argued with myself for a long time about this, so I'm finally bringing this up to the experts.

how in the world can you have the Apollo Program without learning flight? It really, really bothers me that you can build the Apollo program before you can discover flight. this is just wrong. There is no way that you would have the technical knowledge of how to launch a rocket into space without first knowing how to fly.

Yes, I know the Chinese had "rockets" before flight came around. those were short ranged weapons, nothing like lauanching a space vehicle. Yes, the Germans had the V-1, but they also had planes at that time. And the V-1 could hardly get into space. IMO, I think you shouldn't get the Apollo Program before you have flight and rocketry. Waht do you all think?

sparky

Well, Flight refers to the technology involved in providing lift using wings, aerodynamics, etc. Rocketry provides lift by exploding large amounts of fuel. The Apollo rockets had no wings.

[johnmcd]

Originally posted by Wycoff


I'm pretty sure that he was joking... pointing out that humans have done the seemingly impossible before, and that we shouldn't rule things out. Though logically you couldn't have a space program without computers or conventional powered flight, it would also seem to be reasonable that you couldn't create the pyrimids without using engine powered equipment.

Basically, it was a sly way to tell people complaining about the tech tree to STFU

Yes, my point exactly.

[sparkyal]

Ok, the Apollo rockets moved at speeds greater then the speed of sound. When you do that you must have advanced knowledge of lift and areodynamics. Plus, they did have to return to earth, which does require the knowledge of flight. so, flight is kind of required. As to building of the Pyramids comment, it would be like trying to build the pyramids without knowing how to make bricks. Now, that would be a show-stopper

sparky

[Snotty]

no-one says the apollo program has to return to earth, I dont think my theocratic police state astronauts will have much choice about going, even if they could never return.

Of course getting the data back without radio may be somewhat tricky

[Blake]

Smoke signals .

[johnmcd]

Originally posted by sparkyal
Ok, the Apollo rockets moved at speeds greater then the speed of sound. When you do that you must have advanced knowledge of lift and areodynamics. Plus, they did have to return to earth, which does require the knowledge of flight. so, flight is kind of required. As to building of the Pyramids comment, it would be like trying to build the pyramids without knowing how to make bricks. Now, that would be a show-stopper

sparky

If you've got rocketry advanced enough to go to the moon you clearly have pretty good knowledge of aerodynamics.

[Lesbaker]

Actually the "creation" of the Apollo Programme dosn't imply that you actually have to have the ability to carry out the stated goal. When JFK made the undertaking to put a man on the moon, a lot of the required technologies weren't available (e.g. Teflon! Although I admit we could already fly) and were subsequently discovered/invented as the programme neared its goal. In CivIV the Apollo Programme, Manhatten Project, and the Internet are not really Wonders in the traditional sense but more a stated goal manifesting themselves in reality in different ways.
Thus the ancient Egyptians could well have had a Steam Engine Society whose goal could have been the efficient use of Steam Power to Build Pyramids (assuming they could heat water to 100C+) which would parallel the creation of The Apollo programme in modern times. (with the ancient Wonder being the idea to create the Steam Engine for building Pyramids Society)
My argument FWIW is that the 3 "Wonders" above don't really fit the Civ criteria for a Wonder at all, which is usually a building of some sort.
Anyone for a debate on what should be the correct criteria for a Wonder
Les

[sparkyal]

True, to fly to the moon you must have a pretty good knowledge of aerodynamics, which comes from your knowledge of lfight. and, the people in the Apollo program did come back and they had communication via radio and I think the protocol they used was X.25 (for you people in telecom, you know that one well).

Having the Apollo Program before you can fly is just plain silly (IMHO). I would just like to see it moved.

Are they wonders? I think they are classified as projects in CIV IV

sparky