Vassal Problem

[sparkyal]

Forgive me if this has already been pointed out, I seem to recall something about this on a previous thread, but I couldn't find it.

Ok, as the Vikings I attacked Japan, and once they were reduced down they offered to capitulate. I accepted, thinking i could demand their resources like Civlopedia says I can. They have horses and marble. Two nice resources. At first, they let me have the resources under the threat of war. Now they are denying them and it does not threaten war anymore. Needless to say I'm rather frustrated and I wish I had just wiped them out.

If someone capitulates, they should have no rights what-so-ever! If I want gold, I take it. If I want a city, it shoudl be mine. To capitualate means to give up. And I should have the option to redeclare war at the very least. Ok, ranting over

Any thoughts about why Japan won't give me the resources when I demand them?

sparky

[Jaybe]

When I have had capitulated vassals I had the resources and they had gold-per-turn. I would trade a resource for their gold, often 20-40 gpt. My last (huge/marathon/noble) game, I had 5-600 gpt income from my 3 vassals! Since their research was severely degraded because of this, I would trade or gift them technologies, though not up-to-date techs they might trade to my opponents. After all, they will be at war with anyone I am at war with, and as long as they don't reach 50% of my real estate AND population (or lose 50%), they will still be my vassal.

While 2 of my vassals were furious with me pre-war, they ended up only cautious, my other one was pleased (he had been pleased before I had annexed him).

I suspect that your problems stemmed from your continued outright demands. This does not endear them to you. Next game, be somewhat fair to them and see if that improves their behavior. I doubt you will be able to get them to change their stubborness this game because of your high-handedness.

It is also possible that you are playing a higher difficulty level which may increase their intransigence.

[Tattila the Hun]

That's not the point. They are vassals, if I tell them to give me stuff, they must give me stuff, no alternative but re-declaration of war.

[sparkyal]

While I agree that I could have been nicer to them, but the rules clearly state that if they don't give me what I want, we will be at war, and that option is not appearing. Is this a bug? Is this on purpose.

So I'll be nicer next time ...I have a -20 for demands

Actually, next time, no capitualation

sparky

[alexman]

Re: Vassal Problem

Originally posted by sparkyal
Any thoughts about why Japan won't give me the resources when I demand them?

As long as you are demanding only one resource per turn (and nothing else packaged with it in the demand), this should not happen. Do you have a save you can post?

[Standup]

I noticed this as well. I demanded some marble which was fine but when i then demanded horses the vassal said no and that was the end of the discussion. I'm assuming that the refusal only means war if they're a vassal rather than a capitualted vassal ?

If this is a feature then it feels i might as well capture the resource from them anyway.

I can see that it might be open to abuse by allowing you to force wars with vassals you want rid off but then perhaps there should be some other benefits? Especially as there seems to be some debate as whether you get any happiness from vassals anyway.

I only got to -18 before i gave up!

[sparkyal]

Actually

I have noticed a couple of other posts about thsi too, that vassals that have capitulated say no to a demand for a resource, and there are no consequences.

I've attached the file. I'm ARG! of the Vikings

[alexman]

It seems you have already asked for a tribute this turn. If you try again next turn, you will be able to demand another resource.

[Standup]

My Vassel has now just cancelled the deal (tribute) we had with no comeback. So no more marble for me! I can't declare war on him nor will he give me anymore resources

I don't seem to be getting much out of this deal and the only way to break it seems to be to give a couple of cities to take him above 50% which seems a risky strategy and will mean another war

[Brael]

Not really having to do with resources, but I forced Mehmed to capitulate a couple of turns ago, he was left with very few cities (a makeshift capital and a fishing village barely even worth recognising as existing, very far away from eachother), I took the capitulation because hes more advanced than me and I figured having him as my vassal would be a good way to catch back up on techs somewhat. He refuses to trade technology though because "I'm his worst enemy", not that I can blame his hatred of me, I'm -11 from razing his cities alone (to say nothing of the other things I've done). Is there any way I can ever get him to give me tech other than wait and see if he ever likes me somewhat again?

[sparkyal]

Ok, I waired a turn and asked for a reasource again and I got the screen that says it means war. So I told him to give me what I want or else....so he declared war and broke away! Yeah!!!!!! now I will crush him like the dog he is. I had moved some troops away in order to threaten Cyrus, now I will move my beserkers back and crush the rising sun.

Now,a s for th tech trading, I don't know if they will ever give it up. you can direct their resea4rch in circles so they make no real advancements...wait until they are 1 turn away from something and then change their research. That would really annoy them. i ould also build the assets necessary to finish the job. and hope he declares war

sparky

[Prussia]

My favorite cheap trick is the, "wait until there is one turn left and turn down science prod to 30%, and collect your money."

[Brael]

Ok, heres another problem... I have a vassal and cannot demand anything. Everything is red saying he dislikes me, I force him to change to my religon and that gives enough of a relations boost that I now have to ask my vassal if he can spare a tech for a good friend, he says no and I can't trade for it. Are capitulated vassals supposed to be able to refuse like that?

[Prussia]

Wait a while until the relations increase, which they should fairly quickly especially with a religion boost.

Try having him change to your civics (change to his), and wait a while until he starts to like you.

[Brael]

Thats not the problem, it's that I already boosted relations (it was necessary to get any options to not be red) and now I can't demand anything, I can only get the option of "Can you spare this for a good friend?" rather than the "Time for your tribute, refusal means WAR!" option. What I'm wondering is, is this the way it's supposed to be? If so then having good relations with your vassal has a downside.