Instant Apothecary

[eris]

I am playing as Cyrus. I am trying for Domination on a Huge map and having a tough time of it, but that isn't what I wanted to talk about.

When I took the Korean capitol, Seoul, I looked over the list of buildings leftover. I love it when I get a free Forge, or especially an Acadamy. Surprise, surprise, there was an Apothecary there. That didn't bother me much, obviously it was a Grocer, and got re-assigned as my equivalent Unique Building, an Apothecary.

Then that didn't make sense. What happened? Just because I took over that Grocer, it is now stocking my secret recipe of healthy herbs? I don't think so. What if I were Japan? Would a Coal Plant suddenly turn into a Shale Plant? That's some major re-tooling.

It doesn't make sense in role-playing, let alone Real Life, and I am not sure it makes sense in game play. If I get a Grocer from capture, then it should stay a Grocer. If I build an Apothecary in a new city, then it is an Apothecary with the extra bonuses. It would be nice if you could get rid of the old building and build the new one (like I would love to replace Coal Plants with Hydro Plants when available), but even if that weren't true, I think I should inherit the old building.

This leads to the second point. If I capture a city in Persia, should I get an Apothecary or a Grocer? I think I should get Persia's Apothecary. I couldn't build one, but I could keep one.

What do you think? Should Unique Buildings change when you capture them? (Note: There is a parallel effect when India captures or loses a Worker. I don't think that is right either.)

[Tall Stranger]

No, I don't think you should be able to gain the benefits from a unique building that isn't yours, nor do I think there's a problem in a "normal" building automatically upgrading to a unique one. Allowing you to gain the effects of another civ's unique building could prove very destabilizing, upset game balance, and would overly reward warmongering at the expense of other types of play.

Similarly, I just don't see the big deal in "auto-upgrading," for example, a Market to a Forum. I tend to see these upgrades as a reflection of the unique culture of each civ, i.e. the building hasn't changed, it's just the way it's used and its impact on a given civ that is different. (I'll grant you the Coal Plant/ Shale Plant change is odd, but necessary for gameplay purposes.)

[rah]

I like the concept of capturing their unique buildings but from a programming and game approach standpoint I can understand and go along with why it's done the way it is.

[samspock]

I think you should get the unique building but with some limits like not getting any culture from the building and so forth. It might be a coding nightmare but it would add to the flavor of the game. On the other hand if you capture a city with the standard building that matches your UB you should not get the UB but should be able to tear it down if you like.

[Blaupanzer]

Not worth the programming time, I suspect. As programmed, Persia cannot possess a grocery, thus, any captured grocery upgrades. Flip side, the programming necessary to preserve UBs in civs that can't build them would be a mess of "if-type" questions that would really slow the game down, especially upon map updates.

Intriguing, but definitely in the "too hard" category.

See my "normal intelligence" thread for an idea that would be a lot simpler, but hasn't been done -- telling us what is in cities not in your own civ.

Anyone know what the algorithm is that determines what buildings are left standing post a siege? I'll bet UBs of the other civ are always lost. For example, I suspect that Persian Apothecaries don't become groceries when the city is captured, but are lost altogether.

[eris]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer
Anyone know what the algorithm is that determines what buildings are left standing post a siege? I'll bet UBs of the other civ are always lost. For example, I suspect that Persian Apothecaries don't become groceries when the city is captured, but are lost altogether.

I have wondered about the algorithm as well. I like the idea of not having Unique Buildings transfer upon capture. If there were an algorithm like that, then it could be extended to include buildings that were the equivalent of the conqueror's Unique Building. Those would not carry over either, settling my original question/ I'm not sure I entirely like that answer, but itwould be an answer and it should be an implementable answer.

I still like the idea of inheriting Unique Buildings, though, even if people are accurately pointing out that it could be a coding nightmare. I have visions of of my sprawling empire with regional differences; this region having Shale Plants and that region having Odeons, etc, etc. Just trying to think of ways to have the "flavor" of Unique Buildings to have an extended aspect.

Ah well, back to guiding Cyrus to a Domination victory and possibly collecting Apothecaries. If I can get enough territory without having to attack a strong four country Vassalage block, I should have it made. Otherwise, this is going to get very messy very quickly.

[MasterDave]

One thing that is cool about Warlords and UB's is that if your unique building is something that gives culture in a building that normally does not give culture (such as a terrace), you can capture buildings that give culture. This is very convenient when conquering one's neighbors.

[Prussia]

Can't you sell buildings? Then you could just build your UB.

[eris]

Originally posted by Prussia
Can't you sell buildings? Then you could just build your UB.

I certainly have found no mechanism to do so. I can't even give buidings away for free.

I remember seeing this point in initial discussions of Coal Plants and Hydro Plants. The point of that discussion was that one could not get rid of the unhealthimess-causing Coal Plant. Therefore, you had to either get your Factories powered sooner with Coal, or you could wait for Plastics and either build Hydro Plants or the Three Gorges Dam. You could have two power plants in the city but only get credit for one. There was much woe and hand wringing by the players, but no hint that it was going to be changed in the game mechanics.

[Prussia]

Maybe that was Civ 3. Oh well, sorry, don't know how to help you.

Also, if you build the coal works and then a hydro plant, do you still get the unhealthy penalty from the coal?

[MasterDave]

I may be mistaken, but I think a hydro or nuke plant will replace the coal plant, reducing the pollution.

[rah]

I thought that was the case also, but I've been wrong before.