State Property: Convince Me

[Jaybe]

I tried using SP in the early days, probably no later than January '06. I found it to be WAY too powerful for a global empire (in addition to the extra food). Then again, I play at Noble (huge marathon).
If limited largely to a grassland (or formerly jungle) area, I could quite understand the use of it -- everywhere a workshop!

[Arrian]

I finally remembered to try out state property. I was playing as Caesar and had a large empire (duh, although I can honestly say Praets had almost nothing to do with it). Having conquered my entire continent (on a 2-continent map), and having only 2 trading partners (I agreed to freeze out the 3rd remaining civ), Free Trade probably wouldn't do much for me. I do like the +1 food to watermills (workshops not as much, but that's nice too).

There is probably a place where State Property, Free Trade and Mercantalism all meet... and I'm not sure I know where it is. Next time I'm playing a SPI civ and have a big empire, I'll have to test out the various combos. The trouble with a non-SPI civ is that switching between optimal combos is a multi-turn anarchy event (for instance, if you're gonna run Merc, you should probably run Representation too, and depending on the situation, Pacifism as well. If you're running Free Trade or State Property, I'd prefer Universal Suffrage & Free Religion... and then there is the Bureacracy vs. Free Speech question...).

-Arrian

[CarnalCanaan]

Originally posted by Snotty
Going on a kill crazy frenzy so you can win like a man? Then state property is for you

Sayeth the man with a "Smurfs" avatar.

[Arrian]

Last night I fired up a game I had saved and never gotten back to in which I was playing a SPI civ (Rameses) and had a large empire. Standard map, continents... conquered one neighbor completely and knocked another down to 2 cities (vassal). Big, but not half the world.

I played onward and eventually discovered Communism.

I then had a look at some numbers. Running Free Trade and a 100% science rate, I was generating 967 beakers and losing 56 gold per turn, for a net of 911

Running State Property, I generated 917 beakers and lost 10 gpt, for a net of 907.

Essentially dead even on the money front, but of course state property also adds the boost to watermills and workshops, so I stuck with it

-Arrian

p.s. I love the double-shrine wall street city. Confuslam pretty much funded my entire large, militarily powerful, non-ORG empire.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by CarnalCanaan


Sayeth the man with a "Smurfs" avatar.

[Snotty]

All warfare is based on deception

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Arrian
I then had a look at some numbers. Running Free Trade and a 100% science rate, I was generating 967 beakers and losing 56 gold per turn, for a net of 911

Running State Property, I generated 917 beakers and lost 10 gpt, for a net of 907.

Essentially dead even on the money front, but of course state property also adds the boost to watermills and workshops, so I stuck with it

-Arrian

So at the margins, where the quality of the extra trade-route from FT offsets the empire-savings of SP, the extra food swings it. I expect that when rivals are predominantly hostile or mercantile, or there are few coastal cities, SP becomes stronger.

[Zahathustra]

State Propert will be worth of be put over Free Market specially when you have recently conquered a lot of cities from your enemy and added them to your mighty empire but still you have not done much about maintaining their High costs( OR at least most of them are very far from your centers of Government-namely your capital or cities with Versailles or Forbidden Palace in them), you won't be unhappy about adopting State Property over Free Market.

[Brael]

I like State Property over Free Trade even in small empires just for the food bonus, it really opens up options for what you can do with your cities.

[MasterDave]

State property really does seem too powerful compared to the other civics. I am surprised that it has not been nerfed. I think that the civic would still be powerful relative to the others even without the nonsensical food bonus... (collectivized farms are historically unproductive, as repeated and proven to death in previous threads).

[JackRudd]

The food bonuses to various tiles under State Property aren't really food bonuses, they're production bonuses - they aren't there to boost the food production of high-production tile improvements, they're there to make said high-production tile improvements food-competitive with the high-commerce alternatives.

[Cort Haus]

nm

[Yosho]

Originally posted by Arrian
Last night I fired up a game I had saved and never gotten back to in which I was playing a SPI civ (Rameses) and had a large empire. Standard map, continents... conquered one neighbor completely and knocked another down to 2 cities (vassal). Big, but not half the world.

I played onward and eventually discovered Communism.

I then had a look at some numbers. Running Free Trade and a 100% science rate, I was generating 967 beakers and losing 56 gold per turn, for a net of 911

Running State Property, I generated 917 beakers and lost 10 gpt, for a net of 907.

Essentially dead even on the money front, but of course state property also adds the boost to watermills and workshops, so I stuck with it

-Arrian

p.s. I love the double-shrine wall street city. Confuslam pretty much funded my entire large, militarily powerful, non-ORG empire.

Hmmm...my experence has generally been that communism saves much more money then free trade makes, even with a lot less cities then that. Perhaps that's partly because you make a higher priority of harbors and such then I do.