question about AI and defensive pacts

[NFIH]

Is there any way to get AIs to drop defensive pacts with other AIs? I want to attack a certain AI, but the defensive pacts mean the wars are too costly or perhaps winnable, but incredibly long and drawn out such that they are too costly again. But since the victory conditions are domination and conquest SOMEONE has to go to war and the AIs certainly don't seem too eager. So that leaves it to me.

But I can NEVER get anyone to cancel defensive pacts. Once they're set, everything is redded out.

Does anyone ever even get the option to bribe an AI to cancel a defensive pact with someone else? If so, how?

(Personally, I wish there was an option to disallow defensive pacts.)

[illusiondrmr]

Well m8 i dont think u can do much about those defensive pacts. When i found myself in that position i just w8ed to see the particular pact canceled and then invade the civ i was lookin forward to. And i dont think its an option to disable those pacts, correct me some1 if im wrong..

I hope u aint only checkin the domination/conquest victory option !

[NFIH]

Waiting them out isn't an option. Like I say, once the AIs pact with each other, I never see them cancel. What irks me is I don't have even the option to bribe them to cancel.

Shouldn't they at least hear what I'm willing to offer? Not having the option really limits the strategic/diplomatic aspect of the game.

And yeah, I usually play with conquest, domination and cultural for victory conditions. So cultural is in there, but it';s somewhat boring to be forced to have to go for that one. And it takes ages of basically clicking "next turn." Yawn.

[illusiondrmr]

I absolutely agree with u m8, we should have the option to offer them somethin just to cancel it. However, there is a general lack of communication during our "conversations" with other civs, meanin that we aint THAT free to negotiate stuff generally.. for example we might want to suggest to swap our freakin capital for "u.name.it" but we cant (its red).

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

I'm afraid that you're going to have to kill them all

I suspect defensive pacts are part of the game for that very reason - to keep the human player from picking off the AIs one by one...

[Jaybe]

Actually, the key to "disarming" defensive pacts (defpac) is simple (in words, if not in practice).

A partner in a defpac drops from that defpac whenever it enters a war, either offensively or defensively. So, either get that country to declare war on someone, or get someone to declare war on them. You can also get someone to declare war on their defpac partner. Of course, getting a civ to attack a defpac is not the easiest thing to do.

Or, where the defpac is between more than 2 civs, you could get their significant defpac partner to declare war on someone. That will exclude that civ from the pact, leaving the others in.

[Quillan]

Yep, Jaybe has the right idea there. If either party declares war on anyone, the pact ends. This includes one party declaring war on whoever attacked the other. It ends the Defensive Pact immediately. I suspect it was to prevent the sort of Keystone Cops issues that cropped up in Civ 3, where you'd have a mutual protection pact with another civ, a war would start, then every time one of you would sign a peace treaty the other would drag you right back into the war the next turn. In any event, if you can convince either party to attack someone else, it'll break up the pact.

[Swiss Pauli]

If the Civs in the defpac won't declare war on a third party then why not try to goad them into declaring war on you?

[Blake]

Another thing worth noting is that you can just declare war on the pacted AI's - it's true that they are then both at war with you then, but they are no longer pacted, this makes it a lot easier to bribe others into the war. So just beacuse you can't bribe anyone before the war doesn't mean you can't bribe them in after the war has started.

[NFIH]

Originally posted by Swiss Pauli
If the Civs in the defpac won't declare war on a third party then why not try to goad them into declaring war on you?

I think this is perhaps the best suggestion of the lot so far. None are ideal, of course, but I'm not looking for ideal. Just wishing there was more flexibility in the game rather than the dreary "all options redded out" routine that is the norm.