Industrious overpowered?

[Nugog]

It's only strong if you are going for a cultural victory, and you (as Ghandi) have no military UU, so the traits kinda set your agenda from turn 1 really.

Now if the traits were matched with a strong military UU - now that would be overpowered!

[Martinus]

It is neither overpowered nor weak.

I don't think that in order to benefit from this trait you need to (or in fact should) grab as many wonders as possible.

I play MP games most of the time, and there Industrious is useful as it gives you a better edge as grabbing some key wonders. For example, it gives me a better chance of getting Pyramids, which allows me (with Representation) to run a specialist based economy (which is stronger than commerce-based economy in an early game, and MP games rarely last into the late-game stage). Sure you could say that Philosophical is better for specialist-based game, but there is no Phi/Ind combo and without Ind you have less chance of getting Pyramids and some key wonders - unlike AIs, human players know what is good for them and go for Pyramids very often as their first wonder. So in a sense you could say that Ind is a lower risk/lower gain version of Philosophical.

As for Creative, it also can be quite useful in MP, since it allows for a better placement of cities (sometimes you need some resource fast but a better city location spot would be 2 tiles, rather than 1 tile away from the resource, for example) and an ability to cut off an enemy from some areas. It is not very useful for cultural victory, but then again you rarely, if ever, are allowed to win by a cultural victory in MP games.

Louis XIV (who is Ind/Cre), then, is one of my favourite leaders in MP games, not because he is overpowered, or because I am hoping for a cultural victory (although he is suited for a cultural victory - not necessarily because of his traits, but because of the French UB, which is an Observatory with an extra free Artist), but because his traits give me a bit of a "breathing space" and flexibility, and allow to complete key wonders without a very far-reaching strategy or using Great Engineers (in fact, when you are Industrious, it's often more beneficial to simply add Great Engineers to your cities as super specialists - with Representation running, I believe they add 3 production and 6 beakers, so it's basically like running a gold mine on plains, without a need to feed the worker).

[Common Sensei]

Originally posted by Martinus
It is neither overpowered nor weak.

I don't think that in order to benefit from this trait you need to (or in fact should) grab as many wonders as possible.

I play MP games most of the time, and there Industrious is useful as it gives you a better edge as grabbing some key wonders. For example, it gives me a better chance of getting Pyramids, which allows me (with Representation) to run a specialist based economy (which is stronger than commerce-based economy in an early game, and MP games rarely last into the late-game stage). Sure you could say that Philosophical is better for specialist-based game, but there is no Phi/Ind combo and without Ind you have less chance of getting Pyramids and some key wonders - unlike AIs, human players know what is good for them and go for Pyramids very often as their first wonder. So in a sense you could say that Ind is a lower risk/lower gain version of Philosophical.

Industrious to me is basically an early game turbo boost. It gives you a better shot at Oracle slingshots and/or the Pyramids if you don't have marble or stone and gives cheaper Forges. A great early start can set the tone for the rest of the game, so I'd say it's decent overall.