Huayna Capac, the wonder civ.

[Janster]

The old goldies are gone, but from the ashes, a hero..

Aztec civilization, in a few MP games I've just run, he absolutly washes the floor with the other civs.

I used Hannibal, and despite his favorite status, his UU is useless and charismatic, only looks good, but it has some flaws, as it is only good in the beginning of the game.

And even then, since you can't get a religion easily, it only compansate for a religion.

No, the Inca already has religion baked in, and can is not reliant on stone or marble to get his wonders off.

Thus having a real shot at early wonders, and if he gets stone or marble, he will get ALL the wonders.

Janster

ups, sorry slight typo there

[I_pity_the_fool]

Are you talking about Huayna Capac, the Incan leader, or about Montezuma, the Aztec leader?

[Kuciwalker]

I thought Charismatic was amazing at first, but now I'm a bit cool on it. The happy is nice but doesn't make up for the bonuses you can get from other traits, and the experience completely worthless when you're a builder.

I want an Organized/Financial leader

[Wiglaf]

if they put it in an expansion you'd pay $30 for it i bet.

[Janster]

Yepp, starting to see the pic now, Huyena, is absolutly killing the other civs, his starting game is just brilliant.

Maybe, Tokugawa can have the coolest units, but by the time he has his Samurai, Huyena will have lasers.

So it will just be academic

Tsk on them leaving us without a fin/org leader

Janster

[Nikolai]

He's defiately talking of the Incas, I'm nearing the end of a game with them and I've got most of the early wonders and all the rest! Unfortunately for me, in the mean time the other civs grew big on land and power, so I don't have a great lead in score. And in this XP, the other civs fare much better techwise too, so it's a bigger race towards the space ship than what often was the case in vanilla Civ4!(I still am sure to win though)

[rah]

Yes, if an AI is close to you early, they can be rushed.
I'm kicking butt in my current game at monarch and it has given me the confidence to try emp again.

[diemex]

I've been playing INCA's too.... so far my favorite civ, they seem to do very well at the start... sometimes you can grab a lead that the AI will be hard pressed to catch up to.

[Blake]

I think that Inca is stronger on the lower difficulties but weaker on the higher ones - realistically there's little chance of getting wonders on Deity so the agg bonus was definitely more useful.

In MP I imagine that Inca will be much like Qin was - a nice civ, but nothing broken. It's only the AI which relies excessively on archers for defense. And in singleplayer, simply taking wonders is still as strong as ever.

So I'd say Inca are good, but not fantastic. If anything they have weaker traits in warlords due to less ability to "take" (the unique building is all good though).

[Martinus]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
I thought Charismatic was amazing at first, but now I'm a bit cool on it. The happy is nice but doesn't make up for the bonuses you can get from other traits, and the experience completely worthless when you're a builder.

I want an Organized/Financial leader

There is no Organized/Financial just as there is no Philosophical/Industrious. Organized is a "low power/low maintenance" version of Financial just as Industrious is a "low power/low maintenance" version of Philosophical, if you think about it.

[Martinus]

I think Incas are quite strong, but not exactly because of the traits (Financial forces you to run a Commerce based economy, whereas Industrious is better if you want to run a specialist based economy, as wonders are more crucial to the latter - still a better chance to get the Temple of Artemis, the Lighthouse and the Colosus in one city is nothing to scoff at), but because of their UB, which is one of the best unique buildings in game. Since HC is Financial, he needs to get to Pottery asap anyway to be able to build cottages. And with Pottery come the Terrace which serves as a Granary (which is always a useful building) which also doubles as a Creative trait replacement (since it grants +2 Culture).

[Janster]

Hey.

Nice input.
here is a few more cents.

Firstly, rushing HC, is downright nasty, he has his warriors, and that means he is strong from the get-go.

Thus it depends on copper deposits.

As for starting strategy, pottery is nice, but not something you need immediatly.

If he got stone, then masonry and massive wonder building can be a good way, if not, he still can churn out wonders.

He is better server getting his city up to 3-4-5, having 1-2 workers and perhaps 2 wonders, after that he uses settlers.

If in danger of being rushed, this has to change of course.

Janster

[MasterDave]

The best use of Quechas is not neccesarily an early rush, but a very cheap and easy way to control barbarians. Until Axemen show up, the quechas (with Combat I) can easily handle the warrior and archer barbs that you see from around 2500 bc to 1000 bc.

If you do want to rush someone on the cheap, they can be effective, just watch out for an early copper mine ruining the party.

Cheap forges are also a huge advantage of Industrious in addition to the enhanced ability to Wonder whore.

[LzPrst]

Washinton is organized/financial in vanilla....

also, I want back a philosophical creative leader!

[Blaupanzer]

LzPrst (how do you pronounce that), there is a thread about "balancing changes" that would find use for your traits comments. Try there, instead of hijacking this one.

HC does present some nice options with dollars, good early unit, culture from an early and permanently available source, and wonders. Two questions:
Is there a downside to all of this?
Is there a better leader than this? If yes, who and why?

Okay, okay, it's three questions, but the third only counts if the second answer is yes.