Economy help with Praetorian beatdown.

[AgentTBC]

I just picked up the Warlords expansion and am playing with Augustus Caesar. I was never a huge fan of the Romans in vanilla civ; I usually player Washington, Catherine, or Elizabeth. Now I can't seem to get the hang of keeping a decent economy going while using Rome's Praetorian Legions to deliver unto my enemies (everyone else) a massive beatdown.

I'm playing a Large/Continents/Epic game. I have a decent economy with 6 cities, which isn't that many for an Epic game, and a nice iron deposit is discovered right next to my capital. So I mine it and decide I might as well try a Praetorian rush since I'm playing Rome. Louis XIV is on my southern border and currently in 1st place. He just built the Pyramids, too. I like the Pyramids. Julius Caesar conquered the pyramids, I want to conquer the pyramids too. So I build up a force of Praetorians with a couple archers for city garrison duty and set out southwards.

I am pummeling the French. I get a warlord since I'm pummeling him so much. I've destroyed one city, captured two more, and am camped out next to Paris (a couple axemen are in the city so I need a big force to take it). But my economy is in the toilet! My city mainetence is insane and I'm running like 40% science now. How do I manage this? Am I forced to just raze cities? What's the point of the rush, then, since the other AI players will just move in behind me with their settlers? I could delay the rush until I build up a cottage city but the French will have better tech, etc, by then. Any tips?

[SebP]

40% for a while is not that bad. Actually, even 0%. You have some cottages already, right? Get a lot more, prioritize code of laws and you'll stabilize.
With the pyramids using representation/scientists can help you get CoL fast enough even if you need to lower to 0%.

Just play it out...

[chiqss]

Originally posted by SebP
40% for a while is not that bad. Actually, even 0%. You have some cottages already, right? Get a lot more, prioritize code of laws and you'll stabilize.
With the pyramids using representation/scientists can help you get CoL fast enough even if you need to lower to 0%.

Just play it out...

I totally agree , at some point in early ages , if you fight and get cities , you usually grow to fast for your economy to handle...

As SebP mentionned Courthouses and cottages are the key.
You could also forget organized religion if you use it as it has a high maintenance cost.

[AgentTBC]

Thanks, guys. I am running 40% and just now got Code of Laws and am starting to build Courthouses. Looks like I just didn't give it enough time and things would have stabilized. It was discouraging seeing the time to research techs growing progressively longer, but once the courthouses go in it is true that I'll be able to pump the science rate back up quite a bit. Plus, Paris possesses perfectly placed Pyramids.

[Blake]

Plus, Paris possesses perfectly placed Pyramids.

impressive!

[Quillan]

Yes, you don't have the financial bonuses that some of the other civs do, but Rome has its own benefits. What is Augustus? (I don't have warlords yet) Julius is Organized/Expansionistic, is Augustus the same?

The previous posters are exactly correct. Each courthouse will save you some money, and each cottage will generate some commerce. As you increase commerce while reducing maintenance, things will stabilize.

[AgentTBC]

Augustus Caesar is Creative/Organized. But I made an error, I'm actually playing Julius Caesar, who is now Imperialistic and Organized rather than Expansionistic. Imperialistic gives a bonus to produce settlers and +100% Great General emergence. Great Generals (Warlords) are kind of like militaristic Great People.

My economy is stabilized now and once I get everything in place it will clearly be stronger than all the AI players I'm in contact with. I'm currently producing about as much gold as the highest AI but my biggest commerce city isn't nearly at full speed yet... I'm almost done producing the palace, and since I have Civil Service my gold production will skyrocket as soon as the Palace is complete.

I'm still a little behind in tech but catching up fast. Unfortunately Huyana Capac just declared war on me for no apparent reason except he could. So I have to beat him down and then it should be smooth sailing.

[gdgrimm]

As mentioned by another, I wouldn't worry too much about running 40% will fighting a war that is expanding your empire.

When you get down to near 20% or so, then you need to start thinking in terms of ending the war via peace, or eradicate the other civ by razing cities.

Bringing troops home after a war is usually enough to allow you increase reasearch rate by +10% or so, and within a few turns you'll have courthouses in the new cities which will likely free up another +10%.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by AgentTBC
Plus, Paris possesses perfectly placed Pyramids. [/Roger Rabbit]

Fixed.

[Arrian]

Caesar The ultimate "grow like a fungus" civ.

40% is nothing. I've gone down to 10% and recovered to a huge win (that was using Cyrus, who isn't ORG).

Things that help:

Religious shrine income, courthouses (and, once available, a well-place forbidden palace), currency (+1 trade route in every city), markets (forums!), open borders for foreign trade (much more lucrative trade routes), harbors, the Great Lighthouse, grocers, banks...

Along with a decent number of cottages, of course. The easiest part is the courthouses, since as Rome you build those at 1/2 cost. Get the Forbidden up (in Paris, perhaps). Make sure to get currency and build those forums. If you have founded a religion, get a great prophet and build the shrine. If not... found a religion or go capture a holy city.

-Arrian

[One_more_turn]

I'd been running a deficit even with 0% science. But later I recovered and achieved domination victory. It was at Emperor level though.

[Datajack Franit]

You all shut up. I was conquering every single city in the continent but started researching Currency too late.. left alone against China, I had a tech rate of 0%, civic/city costs were about 120 gpt. Preatorians started to disappear one by one as they were disbanded. Then China attacked

I guess the fact I was playing Emperor for the 2nd time raised the costs beyond my expectations

[MikeH]

In my second ever Monarch game that I'm playing at the moment I had a similar problem. Crushed a surprisingly easy Napoleon but then hit 0% science rate with the maintenance, but then started building science in my best building city and my research speed rocketed. Courthouses coming online and cottages growing so money is getting better.

[couerdelion]

The question is often about the prioritisation of Code of Laws. With Rome, you’re likely to want to go for Iron Working early and with conquest can easily get to 6 cities that are quite well spread out. I’d tend to go for COL either before or while I am conquering.

[AgentTBC]

I've played a lot more games as Caesar with an early Praetorian rush and I was definitely too shy about running deficits early on. Even so, I've found that the easiest way to "fix" your economy is the following:

a) build stonehenge for the GP points
b) watch who founds the most popular early religion
c) build up a nice Praetorian force.
d) attack the owner of the most popular religion if they are anywhere near you and take the holy city.
e) Use the Great Prophet generated by stonehenge to build the religion's holy building.

Presto, your economy is strong enough to support further warmonger without having to halt your expansion to rush for Code of Laws and build infrastructure.

Obviously if this is not possible for whatever reason, getting COL early and pumping out courthouses is the next best thing for my play style.