Too many great engineers!

[Saurus]

Due to some combinations, I think that the Great wall has somewhat messed up the early game and not in a good way.
Now there seem to be much more great engineers popping up very early in the game and and theese are beeing used to finnish the other early wonders.

The "stone"-resource is seriously overpowered in warlords in that it doubles production for BOTH the Great Wall AND the Pyramids.
Generally, if someone has stone and a city witch is producing somewhat well then that A.I player first completes the great wall, then the A.I still has time to complete the Pyramids.(Or gets an engineer from the Walls witch he uses to complete the pyramids)
This city is now going to pump out many, many great persons and most of them end up beeing Great engineers becouse of the two early wonders witch are contributing in that direction. This A.I will now get most wonders in the game becouse of the great engineer-spam. Unbalanced IMO.

This problem is more severe on higher difficulty levels were the human is losing 20 turns straight due to not having a starting worker and less starting technologies.. Going after either of GE wonders is difficult and nearly impossible whitout stone.
Anyone else sharing theese thoughts?

[Krill]

*Shrug* It works both ways. I played a game as Lizzie and got stone, and did just that. I was playing on Monarch, and got osmehting like the GW, Pyra, Parth, and about 5 more GE during the rest of the game that I just hoarded. It was fun, but not unbalanced, because While I was doing this the AI was vassalizing itself adn I got dogpiled by 2 declarations of war and a 5 on 1.

But as for the higher level, I honestly don't have much knowledge about them...

[MasterDave]

Two great engineer points per turn do not make or break the game. I have never built the great wall, and still can whore plenty of the early and mid-game wonders from the AI on Monarch level.

[Fosse]

The point at which the Engineer points become very powerful is when you get the Wall and Pyramids in the same city. I had this situation in a recent game where I had stone. I was able to use an Engineer to build the Great Library in another city, and then use the next Engineer to build the Hanging Gardens in my "Engineer Pump." I then had 9 Engineer points per turn. That was a fun game!

But I would agree that it isn't game breaking. Using your Engineers will mean you quickly pollute those Engineer points, or else build up a wonder city or two that will be popping other GP faster than your Engineer city can.

[MasterDave]

Originally posted by Fosse
The point at which the Engineer points become very powerful is when you get the Wall and Pyramids in the same city. I had this situation in a recent game where I had stone. I was able to use an Engineer to build the Great Library in another city, and then use the next Engineer to build the Hanging Gardens in my "Engineer Pump." I then had 9 Engineer points per turn. That was a fun game!

But I would agree that it isn't game breaking. Using your Engineers will mean you quickly pollute those Engineer points, or else build up a wonder city or two that will be popping other GP faster than your Engineer city can.

The AI does not tend to pile up wonders like a human wonder whore would. In fact, it seems like the AI uses many engineers for building other things, teching, or golden ages.

In most of the multiplayer games I have been in, if you are building the Great Wall, you can be pretty sure that two or three players are trying to get the Pyramids built at the same time. It would be very hard to get both unless you are in a small game, or one with players who hate wonders.

[General Ludd]

In one of my games as Louis (on noble) I was able to build every wonder in the game because I kept geting engineers. When I got to the modern age I even had four of them stashed away for the modern wonders. (I also had the good fortune to start very close to both stone and marble resources)

[mkorin]

As a wonder whore, I have a different take. I usually get mostly prophets as more of the stone age wonders give these points. Currently I am playing a game on Prince and I think I have all the early wonders except parthenon. I am mostly devoloping prophets, not engineers. I will admit I got an engineer to complete Chicken Itza. (Which may be my favorite or at least in the top five of wonders).

Yes, I know that is spelled wrong.

[ALPHA WOLF 64]

All I ever seem to get are prophets. Even trying to get GW, Pyramids and HG into one city, all specialists get turned into priests plus add in any holy bldgs and GE points are greatly diluted.

[MoonWolf]

Chicken Itza

Yes, you can get a lot of engineers if you build both Pyramids and the Great Wall. But as Krill points out, you sacrifice a lot. To be able to build both wonders, you must in most cases build them in two seperate cities. Engaging two cities with this job in the early days will really cripple your expansion. Building both wonders in one city, is barerly possible unless you have stone and you should also be an industrial leader.

I'm also a wonder whore, but I also see that building both of them puts me quite far behind the AI...

[DrSpike]

I don't see a problem - you are forgoing early expansion, as well as prophets (at least one is nice), scientists (very important if you want to tech fast (as in spaceship games for instance) and artists (if going for cultural win).