What's the deal with first strike?

[bahoo]

This may have been answered, but I couldn't find it with the search function.

I've always assumed first strike works when defending. Based on the fact that machine guns get it and that protective leaders get it for free. However, I saw a tip when loading a game and it indicated it only works when attacking.

Anyone know for sure?

[Solver]

There shouldn't be any such tip, first strikes work on defense and offense.

[dregor]

Really? Hmm, could have sworn the vanilla manual made it out to only work on defense.

[Proteus_MST]

The german manual for vanilla says it gives you one additional "Erstangriff" which can be translated as either first strike or, as most german readers would read it as an "first attack", suggesting that it is used on attack and not on defense.

As the english version (for example civilopedia) reads "first strike" I think it is rather like solvers says, i.e. that it works both, on attack and defense.

[Snotty]

Do German 'magic the gathering' cards say erstangriff?

[Proteus_MST]

I never played Magic: The Gathering therefore I don´t know for sure.

But according to google there is a card named: "Erstschlag"
(see for example here: http://www.magic-cards-sammelkarten-...rstschlag.html )
Which allows a creature to cause damage before other creatures do so.
I assume that´s the card you mean.

btw. "Erstschlag" would also be the correct literal translation of "first strike" into german.

[MoonWolf]

In CivIV vanilla, my units with all drill promotions won most battles even with a chance of 30-40%. It seemed like the first strikes lowered the strength of the enemy unit enough to kill it almost no matter what. However, when I've tried simular battles in Warlord, the first strikes don't seem that powerful anymore (unless the chance calculation actually count these as well and not only strength). This is regardless of attacking/ defending.

I remember one game I had in vanilla where I really played with first strikes. I landed a few machine guns (3-4 I think) on an emeny continent to distract their army from where my main assault was to happen. These machine guns already had Drill I/II and I gave them even more Drill promotions as they won XPs. I'm sure the enemy must have used 15-20 units (fairly at same level as me) at least before they finally gave up when I had one MG left. After that, I've always have some Drill-experts from crossbow and up. It's though a shame if they don't work as well i Warlord as before

[Kuciwalker]

IIRC battle chance includes first strikes - so your observation about vanilla is just anecdotal. Someone did an analysis and figured out that Drill I and II just aren't worth it, but once you get III and IV on a unit it's just sick.

[Blaupanzer]

That's why Samurai are so deadly -- 2 first strikes. (Without any drill promotions, unavailable to melee units.)

[padillah]

If Drill III and IV are worth it then isn't Drill II worth it if only as a means to get Drill III?

And the combat strengths have been reworked so the math is more accurate now. In the pre 1.61 CIV combat was a function of remaining strength. Thus a first strike would reduce the strength before a chance to fight.

Now combat is the average between full strength and current strength so first strike doesn't make the odds plumit like it used to.

Tom P.

[gdgrimm]

Originally posted by padillah
If Drill III and IV are worth it then isn't Drill II worth it if only as a means to get Drill III?

Not really.

If you're not Protective, then you have to burn 5XP and 2 promos to get Drill I+II, which don't have much value. You end up having to battle all the way to 10XP to finally get a promo that significantly improves your unit's ability. You'll have a better army earlier if you use the first 2 promos for other things, which will immediately make your unit more effective.

That's why the Drill series was generally ignored. The effort put into getting through Drill II was better used elsewhere.

With Protective though, it's a whole different story. You get Drill I for free, will have Drill II with a Barracks, and by the time you get to 5XP will have Drill III, where you start getting real pay-off. By the time you get 10XP (and Drill IV), your unit is pretty lethal.

With the Drill I jump start, the effort to get through Drill II is pretty small, which makes it a more attractive path than it would be if you didn't have the jump start.

[Kuciwalker]

If only Protective still got Drill I and II, rather than City Garrison I

[padillah]

What? They changed it in the release?

Tom P.

[thyrwyn]

It is important to note the other changes to Drill taht make it more marketable (especially to Protective leaders):

in Warlords, Drill and Combat both lead to the anti-[unit type] promotions, such as Shock, Cover, Formation, etc. . .

This means that a Protective Archer can take Shock or Cover as their first "earned" promotion, without the need to pick up Combat I.