Useless nukes

[d474ang3l]

Does anyone know a way to mod your game so that the SDI and bomb shelters are less effective? In this version of the game nukes are practically useless and I think that really sucks!

[Dis]

blame it on the hippies.

[Dauphin]

Use them before the enemy builds the SDI and bomb shelters.

[Kuciwalker]

Nukes being worthless

Civilization just doesn't lend itself well to modelling nuclear warfare. It's really a huge shift from normal game mechanics - even modern war isn't as well done as the earlier parts of the game. Better to just put it in (leaving nukes out entirely would seem pretty stupid) but keep it out of the way.

[Son of David]

They can be very useful, if I remember correctly SDI only works within a civ's cultural boundaries.

So if you have opponents on other continents, you can use your ships as sentries and nuke any potential invading armies as they are being transported across the sea.

Also if you just build lots, one or two will manage to get through the SDI and cause a tiny bit of damage. Suppose that's the best you can hope for in terms of Civilization IV.

[Tennyson]

I want a mod where the Great Scientist and Great General leaders can retreat to mines with supermodels and repopulate the city.

We must not allow a mineshaft gap!

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by Son of David
They can be very useful, if I remember correctly SDI only works within a civ's cultural boundaries.

So if you have opponents on other continents, you can use your ships as sentries and nuke any potential invading armies as they are being transported across the sea.

An old CivII trick

I'm kind of torn about how nukes should work in a Civ game. MAD doesn't really work without some kind of specialized game logic to force the player and the AI to adhere to it. Otherwise a civ - AI or human - will always nuke when faced with a loss, even if it's a loss by space race or culture, and even if facing an overwhelming counterstrike. That isn't realistic, sensible, or fun, IMO. But neither are underpowered, easily defensed nukes.

One way to manage this would be for civs that have built a certain number of nukes - say 5 or more each - to be permanently unable to nuke one another (MAD). They could certainly nuke less sophisticated nations, but perhaps not if the less sophisticated nation was allied with (or on good terms with?) a MAD-enabled nation.

In a setup like this, there's a window of opportunity to use nukes if you get to them first. If you don't get them first, you're exposed and will almost certainly want to catch up.

[Tennyson]

I think the sensible Nuke AI is just not to zero-sum it. If the AI attacks when it about to lose (even in second place) that's zero-sum logic.

If the AI, on the other hand, wanted simply to place as high as possible (win or lose), then it would have to consider the ramifications of a devastating counter-attack on their civ score and plan accordingly. If nuking a space-race victor would drop them from second to third place (or at least not put them in first place) then they shouldn't nuke. The question becomes whether they can nuke AND land-grab enough afterward to make up for their losses.

A side-effect of this is that the civ in LAST place with a nuke has "nothing to lose" and would be a lot like a rogue state in that regard.

[Datajack Franit]

I want nuclear war raising ocean levels and eventually destroying coast cities, like in Call to Power

And also, an auto-lock triggering nukes on the chosed enemy cities if they attack

[d474ang3l]

Last night I went into the game files (buildinginfo and projectinfo) with wordpad and altered the bomb shelters and SDI. I turned the bomb shelters down to 10% and the SDI to 25%. I thought this was more realistic. As far as nuking the computer before they build the SDI, there's not much space between Rocketry and Satelites, so by the time you've got the Manhattan Project built, the computer's SDI is under way.

[Adagio]

Nukes should be more devastating, but most important of all: Make the AI use them too, I refuse to use nukes before the AI build them

[monkspider]

I think there is a lot of potential for a future expansion pack to both make nukes more powerful and build a sort of MAD dymamic into the game.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Tennyson
I want a mod where the Great Scientist and Great General leaders can retreat to mines with supermodels and repopulate the city.

We must not allow a mineshaft gap!

I must say that's a stunningly good idea you have there, Herr Doctor.

[zeace]

I like the idea of modelling MAD. I think that you should only be able to nuke someone if they have less nukes than you have cities, because they can't completely destroy you otherwise. This would keep little countries from picking fights with big ones, but would let big countries take out little ones.

The arms race would be useful, as you'd be trying to build enough nukes to keep yourself safe. Also, if you have an SDI, your opponents should have to have twice as many nukes before he is safe. This can make the SDI an offensive building.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Adagio
Nukes should be more devastating, but most important of all: Make the AI use them too, I refuse to use nukes before the AI build them

Did you think the U.S. would wait for Japan to build nukes before using them on them.