A bunch 'o questions.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

I'm in the midst of another game as I try to gradually move up to tougher and tougher settings. This one is Noble/Marathon/Huge/Terra/11 AIs. Apologies if these have been asked before, but a few questions have arisen:

1. How the deuce does Religion work exactly? The "Change Religion" screen is not illuminative at all. I know that if I have a state religion, I'll get happiness and culture in the cities with that religion (and under certain civics, XP or a production bonus in those cities). Great.

What I don't understand is what I get from having the holy city for a particular religion. Are there special benefits to that city? What about other cities with the same religion? I seem to recall that if you have the holy city for a religion, all cities with the same religion provide you with one coin per turn. Is this correct?

What about if I capture a holy city - do I get the same benefits as if I had founded the religion itself? If I raze a holy city, what are the consequences?

2. One of my favourite tricks to maintain cash flow is to swap nonessential trade goods (e.g. sheep, fish) to AIs in return for a specified amount of cash per turn. Periodically, I'll review all my deals of this sort and where the AI's cash flow has increased, I'll cancel the deal and renew it at a higher cash flow (I once had the Incas paying me 30 g/turn for corn ).

Anyway, sometimes when I try to do this, I get the message "This deal cannot currently be canceled". Any ideas why? I'm not in a 10-turns-of-peace situation, which is the only other case I can think of where I get a diplomatic 'you can't do that' message.

3. Is there a thread about combat tactics, as opposed to strategy, out there? I'm familiar with the basics - stack mounted units with Axemen and Spears in order to stymie the rock/paper/scissors combat system, use catapults to bombard the defenses to 0% and then kamikaze them. But is there anything more in depth out there?

For example, I have been playing a lot with promotions and when to take them. When I build a new unit with 4 XP, I sometimes won't promote it right away. Instead, I'll wait until it gets close to combat and then promote it based on what's needed (e.g. Combat I for general use, City Raider I for assault). Also, occasionally it seems to make sense to avoid taking a promotion until after combat, as promotions have a healing effect. Naturally there's a risk to this, but (for example) if my War Elephant is attacking a Horse Archer, I probably don't need the promotion to win. Does anyone know any similar tricks?

4. Building science or wealth: Very rarely, I'll do this when I need a push to the next tech or am running a huge deficit. This trick seems very inefficient, because none of the usual multipliers (e.g. Market, Monastery) apply to the science/wealth produced - nevermind the fact that only half the the shields are converted, and the other half lost.

Anyways...
4a) When you need money, is it more efficient to start a wonder knowing that the AI will beat you to it, or to build wealth - i.e. how many of the shields you contribute to the wonder are converted to coins?

4b) I noticed that you can't chop-rush wealth - if you are building coins and cut down a forest, (half) the shields aren't added to your wealth - they're all held over until you start work on a unit or structure. If you chop to add to a wonder, and then lose the wonder race, are the shields you added via chopping lost, or are they converted to coins as well?

5. On the "Graph" screen, how is "Power" calculated? In my current game, Huanya Capac has what appears to be a 5% lead on me in power - even though I am up on him in points, 1262 to 673 (Hatty, my closest rival, has 793).

(This is somewhat important, because I just declared war on the Incas... )

I am second in soldiery on the demographics page... 357,000 to 371,000. Is this a straight unit count, or does "Power" also take unit strength into account?

6. If nobody particularly likes Huanya, and they're all pleased or better with me (#2 Hatty, #6 Saladin and #7 Frederick are all Friendly with me), how likely is it that they'll attack me while I'm busy mopping the floor with the Incan?

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

One more question - call it #7:

When you build a mounted unit, do you use the Flanking promotion? How useful is it?

I like the idea of my units having a chance to withdraw after inflicting damage, but isn't it better to take +10% strength and have a better chance of winning outright? Particularly since the chance to withdraw is only 10%.

[Thedrin]

Re: A bunch 'o questions.

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
1. How the deuce does Religion work exactly? The "Change Religion" screen is not illuminative at all. I know that if I have a state religion, I'll get happiness and culture in the cities with that religion (and under certain civics, XP or a production bonus in those cities). Great.

What I don't understand is what I get from having the holy city for a particular religion. Are there special benefits to that city? What about other cities with the same religion? I seem to recall that if you have the holy city for a religion, all cities with the same religion provide you with one coin per turn. Is this correct?

What about if I capture a holy city - do I get the same benefits as if I had founded the religion itself? If I raze a holy city, what are the consequences?

1) The holy city gets +5 culture instead of +1 if you have no state religion or it is the holy city of your state religion.
2) Possession of the holy city allows you to see the cities that have that religion if it is the holy city of your state religion.
3) A great prophet can build the Shrine. Benefits of the Shrine:
3a) +1 gold for every city in the world in which the religion is present.
3b) Ability to make 3 extra priest specialists.
3c) +4 culture.
3d) +1 great prophet point.
3e) Increased likelihood of the religion spreading to other cities.

6. If nobody particularly likes Huanya, and they're all pleased or better with me (#2 Hatty, #6 Saladin and #7 Frederick are all Friendly with me), how likely is it that they'll attack me while I'm busy mopping the floor with the Incan?

Keep your cities defended and you should be fine. A couple of leaders may have -1: You attacked our friend but the negative won't be that great.

[Thedrin]

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
One more question - call it #7:

When you build a mounted unit, do you use the Flanking promotion? How useful is it?

I like the idea of my units having a chance to withdraw after inflicting damage, but isn't it better to take +10% strength and have a better chance of winning outright? Particularly since the chance to withdraw is only 10%.

I don't use it very often - only if I want something that it leads to (for naval vessels mainly) or if I'm sending a large group of mounted units on a suicide mission - the one or two that survive might be useful later.

Generally the 10% is better. It leads to some good promotions and is applied to all battles. Flanking is only applied when you attack.

[Addled Platypus]

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
2. One of my favourite tricks to maintain cash flow is to swap nonessential trade goods (e.g. sheep, fish) to AIs in return for a specified amount of cash per turn. Periodically, I'll review all my deals of this sort and where the AI's cash flow has increased, I'll cancel the deal and renew it at a higher cash flow (I once had the Incas paying me 30 g/turn for corn ).

Anyway, sometimes when I try to do this, I get the message "This deal cannot currently be canceled". Any ideas why? I'm not in a 10-turns-of-peace situation, which is the only other case I can think of where I get a diplomatic 'you can't do that' message

4. Building science or wealth: Very rarely, I'll do this when I need a push to the next tech or am running a huge deficit. This trick seems very inefficient, because none of the usual multipliers (e.g. Market, Monastery) apply to the science/wealth produced - nevermind the fact that only half the the shields are converted, and the other half lost

2)
the cash will start flowing with each holy city built,
+2 gpt per city

My best was 4 holy cities spread to 3 of 4 AI Civ's
Its fun to see a AI civ convert to your religon without asking and when you ask as well

If they dont like your religon, no trade either

4)

I always go for the science

build your religous mono's, each small percent adds up when it comes to research

If I am behind research wise, I sacrafice GPs for the tech
(it would be a cool sound wave-Noooooooo -as you off them)

[DaveV]

Re: A bunch 'o questions.

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
3. Is there a thread about combat tactics, as opposed to strategy, out there? I'm familiar with the basics - stack mounted units with Axemen and Spears in order to stymie the rock/paper/scissors combat system, use catapults to bombard the defenses to 0% and then kamikaze them. But is there anything more in depth out there?

For example, I have been playing a lot with promotions and when to take them. When I build a new unit with 4 XP, I sometimes won't promote it right away. Instead, I'll wait until it gets close to combat and then promote it based on what's needed (e.g. Combat I for general use, City Raider I for assault). Also, occasionally it seems to make sense to avoid taking a promotion until after combat, as promotions have a healing effect. Naturally there's a risk to this, but (for example) if my War Elephant is attacking a Horse Archer, I probably don't need the promotion to win. Does anyone know any similar tricks?

Medic promotions are great, especially on a weak unit that's unlikely to be selected as a defender. Try putting one medic unit in your attacking stack, and you'll be able to go back on the attack a lot faster.

It's good to have specialized units: shock, cover, or formation and a bunch of combat promotions, to deal with AI counterattacks. A lot of my army will have city raider, since most of my attacks are against cities, but you need to be able to deal with units in the open, too. Roads are also very important to give you the mobility to cover your territory, and Engineering is very useful to a warmonger for the extra road movement.

I like the combat in this game better than Civ2; there are uses for almost all the units, and the AI is a lot better.

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
5. On the "Graph" screen, how is "Power" calculated? In my current game, Huanya Capac has what appears to be a 5% lead on me in power - even though I am up on him in points, 1262 to 673 (Hatty, my closest rival, has 793).

(This is somewhat important, because I just declared war on the Incas... )

I am second in soldiery on the demographics page... 357,000 to 371,000. Is this a straight unit count, or does "Power" also take unit strength into account?

Try this link.

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
6. If nobody particularly likes Huanya, and they're all pleased or better with me (#2 Hatty, #6 Saladin and #7 Frederick are all Friendly with me), how likely is it that they'll attack me while I'm busy mopping the floor with the Incan?

That's something I check very carefully before picking my next victim. If you can find someone who's not well liked, you can attack them with impunity.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

More q's

Thanks to those who answered, especially re: religion. That makes things a whole lot easier to understand.

I managed to found Xianity in my current game, but am still running Bud as my state religion. Reason: Most of the world is Bud, and I have quite a few friends who just love me for that reason. Not coincidentally, I can beat up on the non-Bud heathens and everyone else just stands around and applauds

I think that advantage trumps the gold that would come from me building the Xian shrine and switching to Xianity. Am I wrong in thinking thusly?

(for that matter, if I build the shrine, do I have to be running the shrine's religion to get the gold, culture and GP point?)

On tactics - when facing enemies that will need to be softened up (e.g. archers on a hill, and you have axemen to attack with), is it better to attack with green troops first, to soften up the bad guys, and then attack with your vets who will have an even better chance of winning (and thereby getting promoted higher)? Assume for a minute that there are no siege units available - I always use those for softening up the enemy regardless of the odds.

I normally attack with my unpromoted guys first, and avoid committing my veterans until the odds are more in their favour. However, not long ago I lost 2 unpromoted horse archers while attacking a fortified longbowman - and the longbowman wasn't even scratched . So now I'm wondering if it wouldn't have been smarter to use a Combat II horse archer, or even a Knight? Thoughts?

[fed1943]

My rule of thumb is to attack with the stronger first.

I just go with the weaker when the defender is stronger than any of

mine.

Best regards,

[grassmarket]

On the flanking thing: I had a situation last game when, in the modern world, France was sending me lots of stacks with unupgraded units from various eras protected by a couple of SAM infantry. The best way to get rid of them was to build Gunships with high flanking XPs. That way, I could send Bombers and Gunships to wear down the SAMs before they even crossed the border, sacrificing some but saving the rest, so that I could then re-use the survivors to get down to the soft stuff underneath.

[gdgrimm]

Re: More q's

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
(for that matter, if I build the shrine, do I have to be running the shrine's religion to get the gold, culture and GP point?)

On tactics - when facing enemies that will need to be softened up (e.g. archers on a hill, and you have axemen to attack with), is it better to attack with green troops first, to soften up the bad guys, and then attack with your vets who will have an even better chance of winning (and thereby getting promoted higher)? Assume for a minute that there are no siege units available - I always use those for softening up the enemy regardless of the odds.

1) You can build the Xtian shrine and actively spread the religion everywhere in the world, but still maintain Bud as your state religion. You'll get the gold, culture, and GP's (as well as the extra Priest specialist slots) from the Xtian shrine.

In fact, in a lot of games where I found 1 early religion, I usually end up founding 2. I'll make sure that I build both shrines, and have all my cities converted with both religions. I choose state religion for the purposes of diplomacy.

The only thing to be aware of, is if you're picking state religion for diplomatic friends, and push both religions heavily into other civs, a civ may choose to flip it's state religion to the Xtianity, and stop being a Bud friend. So try to make sure that civ has 2 Bud cities for each Xtian city (my personal rule of thumb). Civ's flip state religions based mostly upon how many of their people believe in that faith.

2) Depends on the odds. If I'm looking at 90% win with experienced troops, and 80% win with inexperienced, I'll usually give the greenies their shot first.

If I'm looking at 70% on the experienced and 55% on the greenies, I'm more likely to use the experienced ones first. Winning the battle is really more important than spreading the experience.

If I'm looking at 50% on the experienced and 35% on the greenies, I'll tend to go back to the greenies first. But I should only expect to run one battle like this per turn. If I'm having to suicide many non-siege units, then the losses are going to be too painful and I'm better off waiting a few turns to get the right tool for the job.

If you're seeing 20% on the experienced and 5% on the greenies, well, don't waste your time -- and smack yourself for poor planning. Suiciding non-seiges for 5% is most likely going to earn promos for your opponent with no significant damage to them.

[Willem]

Re: Re: A bunch 'o questions.

Originally posted by Thedrin

2) Possession of the holy city allows you to see the cities that have that religion if it is the holy city of your state religion.

Not true. Simply founding the religion and having it as your state religion will allow to "spy" on those cities that adopt it.

[Willem]

Re: More q's

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
I think that advantage trumps the gold that would come from me building the Xian shrine and switching to Xianity. Am I wrong in thinking thusly?

Yes you are. You get the 1 gpt/city from the shrine regardless of whether it's your state religion or not. There's no good reason for not building it.