Horrible A.I vassal agreements

[joncnunn]

Well, perhaps each new lord gave them a tech or gold in exchange for becoming a vassal.

Quite shrewd of AI Brennus; much more than I'd expect an AI to be. As for the lords perhaps they are overpaying?

Originally posted by playshogi
The funny thing I noticed about vassals was in a game where I won by spaceship and did not fight any wars. On the other end of the continent, Brennus was pinned down by 2 other AI to just 2 cities the entire game. Throughout the game he kept switching vassal partners. First, Inca, then Egypt, then back and forth, then France. It seemed absurd. The really odd thing is that with just 2 cities he was the first AI to build spaceship parts.

[hallumj]

I'm playing a game on Noble right now, still figuring out some things, and I just very nearly wiped Hannibal out (I'm playing Louis XIV). I also have the wipe out all units before Civ is extinct flag set. About 20 turns into the extermination, he becomes a vassal of Monty, and thus Monty goes to war with me. After wiping out his last city, twenty turns later, Hannibal asks me for capitulation, and silly me, I say yes. So now all that is left of Carthage on the map are 3 Triremes and 2 archers, and 3418 turns for him to learn Civil Service. Remind me not to do that again, as I'm pretty sure I'm getting zero benefit for having him as a Vassal.

[Saurus]

Having now played a few games, I do now agree that the vassal agreements ads depth to the game. Expecialy to the endgame.

In my current game for instance every nation have become vassals to either Alexander or me.
(Monty, Mansa and Ceasar are vassals of Alex while Louis is my vassal)
Basicaly either there is peace in the world or then there is the Alex-block fighting my block. Spicy and fun.

However, the A.I must better understand how the vassaldeal works. For instance, Alex keeps on attacking Louis and then gets whipped badly by me.
I take some of his cities and he asks for peace.
Then there is peace for 10-20 turns. Then Alex again attack Louis and is again whipped badly by me.
A.I does not seem to realize what it REALLY will be fighting against when declaring war on a weak vassal state.

It does not work well the other way around either. A.I does NOT understand when there is a need for a peaceful vassal-agreement. For instance in my current game, Louis asked to become my vassal during peace.
I accept and provide Louis with all kind of resources.
A few turns later Alex declares war and come with huge stacks of cannons and cavalries and park them outside the french city of Tours. Mansa Musas Grenadiers also appear from north and Montys riflemen starts to show up from northwest. French riflemen defend the city for 2 turns and only have 2 badly damaged riflemen left by the time my own troops (some pieces of artillery, Tanks, some Infantries and machine guns) arrives for the defense of the city.
The next turn my troops starts to mop-up the attackers.

You can imagine my surprise when Louis at this points counducts diplomacy and states that "I am to weak to protect him" and want to break out of our vassalagreement.
By that time he had NO troops of his own whatsoever left in Tours. And now, WHILE I am still defending HIS city against 4 opponents, he is obviously willing to start a war against me also??

Well, I allow him to break out of the agreement... only to find him begging for a vassal agreement again the very next turn. This same kind of situation has now happened twice during this game - that the A.I first breaks free ... then again the next turns want to become a vassal again.

[Adagio]

I have yet to see the AI do something as stupid as that, but I guess I will soon enough, unless it gets fixed in the patch

Originally posted by Saurus
Having now played a few games, I do now agree that the vassal agreements ads depth to the game. Expecialy to the endgame.

In my current game Germany and Carthage are my vassels, while Viking is a vassel to Aztec. Aztec had a defense deal with the Celts (who's on the same continent as Aztec... Vikings are on my continent)
I decided to attack the Celts (didn't see the mutual protection pact), and for the next 30 seconds (or how long it takes) I just heard the "war" sound play over and over again, as me and my two vassals decleared war on three other civs
Now the Vikings are on my side, Montezuma completely failed to protect them

[Itsatrap]

I haven't seen the AI do anything really boneheaded (yet), but I do know that having vassals really mucks up the diplomacy modifiers. The problem is that my vassal has a whole different set of diplomatic allies and enemies, so my allies keep telling me to stop trading with my vassal, etc. The other side-effect is that I can never give any tech to my vassal for fear of them trading it to all of my competitors.

- Alan

[potoroo]

[SIZE=1] It does not work well the other way around either. A.I does NOT understand when there is a need for a peaceful vassal-agreement. For instance in my current game, Louis asked to become my vassal during peace.

I accept and provide Louis with all kind of resources.
A few turns later Alex declares war and come with huge stacks of cannons and cavalries and park them outside the french city of Tours. Mansa Musas Grenadiers also appear from north and Montys riflemen starts to show up from northwest. French riflemen defend the city for 2 turns and only have 2 badly damaged riflemen left by the time my own troops (some pieces of artillery, Tanks, some Infantries and machine guns) arrives for the defense of the city.
The next turn my troops starts to mop-up the attackers.

You can imagine my surprise when Louis at this points counducts diplomacy and states that "I am to weak to protect him" and want to break out of our vassalagreement.
By that time he had NO troops of his own whatsoever left in Tours. And now, WHILE I am still defending HIS city against 4 opponents, he is obviously willing to start a war against me also??

I've seen something similar. Hannibal offered vassalage to me during peacetime. I was well leading the points score when I declared war on Napoleon. I took three of his border cities and I had a massive tank/infantry army about to sweep through what's left of France (it took me all of about 10 turns in the end). At that point Hannibal popped up and declared I was too weak to protect him, etc. I was so surprised I even posted a screenshot of that diplomacy screen. Needless to say Hannibal - one of the weakest civs in the game - was next on my hit list.

[diemex]

I'm having a weird vassal relationship.


Stalin is asking me to protect him allowing him to be my vassal. But it only lasts a few years and then he breaks. Only 2-5 turns later he asks to join up again. And breaks in about 10 turns... then asks to join again.

Since it was him and me only on a Continent I got fed up and just wiped him out.... NOW ITS ALL MINE MUUUhahahahah err ok back to the vassal stuff....

Korea after all this became a capitulated vassal, this one is much more stable. No breaking.

[Gibsie]

Originally posted by Bushface
Things being as they are, why should anybody ever accept an offer of vassalage or capitulation ?

It would seem, that the prime reason is that if you don't, then another AI will come along and vassalize them, completely messing up the diplomatic picture...

[potoroo]

Originally posted by Gibsie
It would seem, that the prime reason is that if you don't, then another AI will come along and vassalize them, completely messing up the diplomatic picture...

Ah, but if you acquire too many vassals the remaining civs rate you negatively. Even though your vassals only have one city each and can barely afford street sweepers the independent civs seem to see you as the leader of a huge empire (which you probably are, but I'm sure you know what I mean).