Horrible A.I vassal agreements

[Kuciwalker]

Alex

[Martinus]

Btw, what happens if a civilization becomes a vassal of another during war based on capitulation rather than a peaceful vassalage, but it has also other enemies it is fighting? Does the new master find himself suddenly at war with the enemies of the vassal (which would be very illogical, considering they have been his allies until the previous turn) or is the capitulated vassal forced to peace with everybody?

If it is the former, then paying your allies to sign peace with your enemy before forcing the enemy to capitulate seems like the only sensible choice.

[alexman]

For capitulation, the vassal adopts the war/peace state of his new master towards everyone else.

[Martinus]

Originally posted by alexman
For capitulation, the vassal adopts the war/peace state of his new master towards everyone else.

Thanks alexman. It makes a lot of sense.

[YC4B4U]

You probably don't need another saved game - but here is one anyway...

Ottomans being attacked by Mali (me) 2nd ranked in score and Celts 1st ranked in score. Ottomans getting pillaged. I don't accept capitulation (preferring just to take his lands). So he decided to take up vassalage with Korea.

Now Korea has #1 and #2 about to rain on his parade!

[alexman]

Thanks. All saves are welcome, just to make sure things are fixed. But do you by any chance have a save from just before Wang Kon accepted Mehmed as a vassal?

[Randolph]

-Stupid question alert -

I just made my first capitulation agreement (Qin), all his techs are still reded out ("we won't trade with our worst enemy"), and he refuses all my demands (except resources) and I have no option for recourse. Is this how it's suppose to work?

[YC4B4U]

This is the best I can do... From memory it is just before I attacked the Ottomans. Unfortunately I don't save often!

[clinton]

Originally posted by alexman

Could you please post a save of that game, just to make sure it's fixed for the patch? Thanks!

Originally posted by alexman
Their judgement for this matter is clearly not what it should be.

Please post your saves displaying silly AI behavior with regards to vassal states. That way I can make sure things will have improved for the patch.

Originally posted by alexman
Thank you. OK, no more getting the AI to declare war on your vassal after the patch.

Please continue to post any other issues!

So what is the expected release time of this patch? Weeks? Months? I'm wondering whether to start a new game or wait for the patch (particularly as I don't want to learn new tactics in warlords if the availability/balance of those tactics is going to be changed significantly in the patch).

[DrSpike]

It is good that these issues will be fixed in an upcoming patch, but since they are so blatant I'm wondering why the betatesting didn't pick it up.

[Jaybe]

clinton, SEVERAL weeks (or a month or two) would be my guess for patch #1. Based only on previous experience with Civ3. They have to gather all the bugs from here and elsewhere, fix them, test them, and probably clean up some video resource issues while they are at it.

[Bushface]

Things being as they are, why should anybody ever accept an offer of vassalage or capitulation ? Both are offered only by civs on the brink of extinction, when it isn't likely that they will have much to offer that can't be taken by force in a few turns anyway. And in the real world vassals were taxed by their overlords, whereas in the game having a vassal costs money for increased city maintenance - goodness knows why. Moreover, does having a vassal preclude one from obtaining a Conquest victory (unless the vassal does indeed have a resource which can be demanded and he is fool enough to reject the demand) ? Can one demand such a resource if it is one you already have ? If he has two identical ones, can you demand both, in order to try to force a final war ?
In my opinion, a vassal should pay tribute in gold every turn, failure to pay being cause for war, and a civ which capitulates should (on acceptance) immediately be assimilated into that to which it has capitulated.

[Jaybe]

Have you ever TRIED accepting a vassal? The income opportunities from trade (or flat-out extortion) are enormous. Much greater than the increased maintenance costs.

[sparkyal]

Ok, here is a question, after a capitualation you demand some resource or money and the vasal says no, are you at war with that vassal?

sparky

[Jaybe]

No, you are not, sparkyal. It cannot happen with the capitulated. Be reasonable with them and over time they will support you financially quite well with trades. They will lower their research efforts to ensure they have money to trade with.

Will they change this in the patch?