Horrible A.I vassal agreements

[greenday_234]

Afew turns before Hatshepsut became a vassal I went to Brunnus and he said "I would encourage you to stop trading with our bitter enemy Hatshepsut"

I've had the same sort of issue. I keep getting "I would encourage you to stop trading with our bitter enemy Mao Zedong" even though I haven't conducted any trade with him in several thousand years.

[Tattila the Hun]

Hum, last game I played, I built a crapload of nukes, few transports and infantries. Then nuked and conquered every coastal city of two of my most powerfull foes, then proceeded to nuke the inland cities to capitulation. Which both did. Was aiming towards domination. Next turn, after billions of dead, half of the world is a desert, or turning to one, comes the diploscreen. So, I set up the victory vote, and win, of course, as there's only one small non-vassal nation, rest are mine, still glowing in the dark... Seems very un-diplomatic to me.

I wonder, could one get AI's to capitulate solely by nuking them? No groundtroops, just mushrooms...

[agisfox]

I've noticed an odd thing with the Vassals - if an opponent declares war on one of your Vassals, it seems like your counter-declaration of war happens "first" - it showed the "You declare war on " before (at one point a fair while before) " Declares War on " shows up, and you get the diplomacy penalties for starting the war - e.g. the "You declared war on us!" and "You declared war on one of our friends!" rep modifiers, even though you didn't actually start it.

As for nuking them into submission - it might work. Churchill folded remarkably quickly; I took only two of his cities - he had another 8 or so - and he promptly capitulated. One of those I took was his capital, though.

(And in my current game I can get Alexander - who I'm friendly with - to declare war on two of my vassals. Haven't seen what would happen, though).

[alexman]

Originally posted by agisfox
And in my current game I can get Alexander - who I'm friendly with - to declare war on two of my vassals.

Could you please post a save of that game, just to make sure it's fixed for the patch? Thanks!

[Henrik]

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
I wonder, could one get AI's to capitulate solely by nuking them? No groundtroops, just mushrooms...

You can. But atleast when I did it, it involved turning half of the AI civs cities into ashes (still had a lot more nukes to use after that which might have influenced him to surrender as well I suppose).

[joncnunn]

An obvious fix is to have the creation of vassalge reset the new vassels peace/war status to match that of the lord. Thus getting the new vassals out of the wars he was in that the lord wasn't in and avoiding drawing the lord into pre existing wars.

[YC4B4U]

To reinforce the point of Vassal problems:

First game I played, I knocked the Persians down to a city or two when suddenly my good friends next door, the Carthaginians decide to declare war. I scratch my head for a while, then check the diplomatic screen - you guessed it - Persians had become Vassals of the Carthaginians. So I wiped both out

Second game similar problem. Indians were becoming too advanced for my liking so I declared war. The Aztecs and Mongols then agreed that it was good to attack the Indians (cost me a couple of useless techs). I couldn't get them to attack the Indians before I went to war I might add. Indians are quickly subdued and decide to become Vassals of the Ottomans (I new what had happened this time). So Mongols, Aztecs and I head north and wipe them out too...

By that time I was trying for Domination so it worked out (I don't usually have a plan in mind, I just enjoy playing the game).

Seems a bit silly to me to commit suicide like that - surely the AI must weigh up the benefits of vassalage to the disbenefits of going to war with three of the four most powerfull Civs!

[alexman]

Originally posted by YC4B4U
surely the AI must weigh up the benefits of vassalage to the disbenefits of going to war with three of the four most powerfull Civs!

Their judgement for this matter is clearly not what it should be.

Please post your saves displaying silly AI behavior with regards to vassal states. That way I can make sure things will have improved for the patch.

[YC4B4U]

I will see what I can find for you. But please don't laugh at the way I play the game

[Prussia]

"The Vassal of my Vassal is my Vassal."

[playshogi]

The funny thing I noticed about vassals was in a game where I won by spaceship and did not fight any wars. On the other end of the continent, Brennus was pinned down by 2 other AI to just 2 cities the entire game. Throughout the game he kept switching vassal partners. First, Inca, then Egypt, then back and forth, then France. It seemed absurd. The really odd thing is that with just 2 cities he was the first AI to build spaceship parts.

[KillerBean]

Yeah, I have experienced similar Vassalage agreements. Earlier this evening I was playing, decided to invade Russia. Everything was going smoothly..easy war b/c of a weak Stalin.. and during my gleeful raping and pillaging Ghengis Khan randomly declares war on me? We have been pals for years, share the same religion, so wtf?

Oh, it appears Stalin is now a vassal of the Mongol. I end up carving Russia into a city-state of Moscow, which becomes my vassal state, and go down south to kick some Khan ass. Took two of his cities and gave 'em to my pal Mehmed because I didn't feel like keeping them.

But yeah, the AI is retarded. It seems overly anxious to just attain a vassal, it doesn't really compute the consequences of the vassalage. In my experience it was a bad deal all around for the AI...Khan makes Stalin vassal, I take most of Russia..then make Stalin my vassal, and then Khan loses some cities. C'mon AI, you should know better.

[agisfox]

Here's a save spot where I can get Alexander to declare war on Isabella, who's a vassal.

[alexman]

Thank you. OK, no more getting the AI to declare war on your vassal after the patch.

Please continue to post any other issues!

[yin26]

By the way, a big thanks goes to Alex for being so attentive on this critical element of the game. Bravo! Thanks, too, for people posting issues.