Great General generation on Marathon

[Proteus_MST]

That´s why a cap on the GG points like jdchambe suggested would be a good countermeasure against exploiting the barbarians.
This way you wouldn´t get a GG by fighting barbarians, but (for example) just 50% of the points needed for the first one (at which point you won´t gain any more GG points, no matter how much barbarians you fight thereafter).

As jdchambe mentioned, this would be fully consistent with the cap you already have on the XP your units get if they fight animals or barbartians and would be very effective in stopping any exploitation of barbarians as a source of GGs.

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by dregor
... and farm the barbarians as they come out to attack ...

Good point. If GG points were to accrue with barbs, it should not be on defense, only on attack. That would minimize that exploit.

[Nugog]

Originally posted by rjwoer
Also, I am curious if anyone else thinks combating barbarians should allow the accruement of XP points toward a GG?

I believe that XP from barbs should count towards GG points.

Combat is combat.

Yes it could be expolitable, so maybe a cap on the volume of GG points would apply.

[Akaoz]

They cap the XP to be gained for your units, so why not just cap the number of GG's to one, from Barbs? I like it.

[asleepathewheel]

I like the cap on barb gg xp.

I do agree that I'm getting very very few gg's on marathon. just not enough action compared to the increase in price.

[rjwoer]

OK, cool. It looks like we pretty much all agree:

- GG points from attacking barbs (not defending), and capped at 1 GG.

- Perhaps only 50% generation of XPs

Now to figure out which file includes this and how to adjust the values.

(Could we be lucky enough that Firaxis is listening in and might make this adjustment for the first Warlords patch?)

[Jvstin]

I'm going to offer a slightly different view.

I'd say that GG points from Barbarians, but at a 50% penalty and *only* within your cultural borders.

Otherwise, IMO, its way too easy to exploit "farming" barbarian cities in order to get cheap GG points even at a penalty.

[Jaybe]

In my first Warlords game (huge marathon), I attacked Spain shortly after learning Feudalism. She offered capitulation, I accepted; then a couple turns later Ragnar attacks Spain. In this short war, my active defense of Spain (and one of my cities) has me 3 XP shy of my first GG.

OTOH, I am playing as Rome with Imperialistic Julius.

[jdchambe]

Originally posted by Jvstin
I'm going to offer a slightly different view.

I'd say that GG points from Barbarians, but at a 50% penalty and *only* within your cultural borders.

Otherwise, IMO, its way too easy to exploit "farming" barbarian cities in order to get cheap GG points even at a penalty.

but putting a flat cap on the number you can get from barbarians, as I and others have proposed is more effective at preventing farming them for GG points.

[pauli]

the other thing to remember about barbarians is that they are not equal opportunity hellraisers. also, the ai not only likes razing barb cities, but (iirc) knows where they are at all times. farming may not be so easy.

i'm trying to work out if great instructors and military academies are more or less useful at marathon than at faster speeds.

[Eggolas]

Originally posted by rjwoer
OK, cool. It looks like we pretty much all agree:

- GG points from attacking barbs (not defending), and capped at 1 GG.

- Perhaps only 50% generation of XPs

Now to figure out which file includes this and how to adjust the values.

(Could we be lucky enough that Firaxis is listening in and might make this adjustment for the first Warlords patch?)

Civfanatics post by DrewBledsoe: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...=179718&page=2

Using the Great Wall and Imperialistic trait really speeds up the creation, especially if you can manipulate the AI into trying to retake cities or pillage the inside the new cultural boundaries.

[snoopy369]

You'd have to mod the python, I think, to allow GG points through barbarians. I don't think GG points are given in python, but I'm pretty sure you can manually give them - Genghis Khan may do so, it certainly traps the GG xp count anyway (to give GGs when you have no cities).

[MightyTiny]

I have to agree that in marathon mode, great general generation is FAR too slow - in my game that I just finished, where I won on a standard sized map by conquest (at the end of the 19th century AD), I killed off my last opponent just short of receiving my SECOND great general!

I mean, that was a true warmongering game - the only limiting factor was that it was with raging barbs, on a highlands map, so the map wasn't completely colonized by the AI opponents even at the end. Still, I killed a great many units, and sacked a great many cities, receiving only ONE great general in the game.

If that isn't proof enough that the GG generation is scaled WAY too low in marathon mode, I don't know what could be.

[Proteus_MST]

As I always play in Marathon mode I have changed the line for the XP needed for a GG in normal mode to 15, so that in Marathon mode I "just" need 45 XP for my first GG (i.e. just 1.5 times normal instead of 3 times normal)

[ALPHA WOLF 64]

there is a mod now over at civfanatics that lets you earn GG XP from barbs, and I modified the XML so that XP from barbs cant for promotions too. To my glee, the first 3 GG were all generated in far away lands. So the AI seems to be generating them as quickly as I am. Cant wait to run across some uber AI units