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How Best to Enjoy the Vassal Mechanism

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  • How Best to Enjoy the Vassal Mechanism

    Looking at the Gamespot review (which at least in the print version didn't mention vassals at all), and based on some experience with testing Warlords, I would just like folks at Poly to know that the vassal mechanism seems highly influenced by your map setup and other settings (this makes sense when you think about it...if there aren't enough civs going at each other, you can't really expect too many vassal agreements to form).

    Therefore, I would like to share the settings that I have been playing with, and virtually *every* game across a few dozen games I have seen world wars and generally speaking just a far, far more interesting diplomatic game due to vassals forming all over the place. For me, this has entirely rejuvenated my Civ experience, as I've put all other games aside and find myself hooked again in ways I haven't been for years. Here are the settings, though perhaps there are even better ones:

    Balanced map, standard size, 10 (yes, 10, 9 works well, too!) players, agressive AI, Prince.

    It's a blood bath from the very early going, as you might imagine. Just surviving the early game is a great challenge, and as a result of packing so many aggressive AIs on one big landmass, the vassal agreements start to form relatively early and have a HUGE impact on the rest of the game.

    I've only managed to win three games with this setup. One by diplo and two by space race. But even the games I lost were really engaging. Often it seems to come down to whether or not I was placed in the center of the viper pit (that is, center of the map) or on the fringes somewhere, allowing me a better chance to choose my battles.

    So if you really want to see vassals in their full glory, you might try these or similar settings. Good luck.
    I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001

    "Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.

  • #2
    Cool, I am looking forward to seeing how vassals affect the diplomatic climate of the game. I may have to give your settings a try.
    http://monkspider.blogspot.com/

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    • #3
      Please report back if you do. By the way, I just watched the video review, and Jason mentions vassals only as a mop up feature. Actually, I think that's their least interesting effect on the game...though, again, you probably have to have the right kinds of settings to see what I mean. While I'm glad Jason hyped up the scenarios, those really aren't my thing, so I'm a bit disappointed that he didn't see the larger effect of the vassal system in the main portion of the game.

      In any event, let's see what others think of it.
      I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001

      "Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.

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      • #4
        With all due respect, most reviews I have read of Civ4 by the "professional reviewers" (GameSpot, GameSpy and other big sites) were quite clueless and missed many of the points, both positive and negative. As far as Warlords goes, I've only read the GameSpot review, but have to admit again that I am terribly unimpressed.
        Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
        Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
        I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man

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        • #5
          How do you declare war on your vassal? I accepted Hapshepsuts plede for capulation early in the war so I could regroup my troops. Now it says I can't declare war. Do I go into the "What deals do have together?" screen, click on capulation and then declare war?
          USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!
          The video may avatar is from

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          • #6
            Has anyone tried making regular demands on vassals to see how responsive they are?

            In particular: demands for technology and strategic resources, etc.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Solver
              With all due respect, most reviews I have read of Civ4 by the "professional reviewers" (GameSpot, GameSpy and other big sites) were quite clueless and missed many of the points, both positive and negative. As far as Warlords goes, I've only read the GameSpot review, but have to admit again that I am terribly unimpressed.
              This has been the case for some time for almost all games I know well. Thus for games I don't know well I don't trust them either.

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              • #8
                Capitulation is permanent. You can't do anything toget rid of them. Well, they can break away on those percentages.
                Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
                Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
                I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Will9
                  How do you declare war on your vassal? I accepted Hapshepsuts plede for capulation early in the war so I could regroup my troops. Now it says I can't declare war. Do I go into the "What deals do have together?" screen, click on capulation and then declare war?
                  I'm not sure you can (I haven't tried!). I think this is part of the strategic decision you must make when accepting capitulation, and that's for the better. If you are in a position simply to take over the other civ with no real harm to your overall health as an empire, then you should probably just do so. But if you are accepting capitulation to regroup, that's your trade off.

                  Your challenge now will be to decide whether and how much to build up Hapshepsut. You can feed her tech and other goodies to make her a helpful partner, or you can keep demanding all she has and keep her weak. This is a safe way to go but might come back to bite you if you are engaged in more challenging wars later and she can't defend herself let alone give you any help. She will always vote for you in the U.N., though.
                  I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001

                  "Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Son of David
                    Has anyone tried making regular demands on vassals to see how responsive they are?

                    In particular: demands for technology and strategic resources, etc.
                    They are overall quite responsive in the early phase of being your vassal. I've found, though, that too many demands eventually start to run you into less and less success, particularly if you are not continuing to grow in power yourself. They are guaranteed trading partners, however, though this is only really helpful if you help/allow them to become advanced enough (which is its own risk because they will trade with others and will, if possible, break away from you if you are getting hammered in another war). By the way, you can also tell them what to research under the "Let's talk about something else" screen. Under the right parity, of course, this could *really* help you out.
                    I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001

                    "Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.

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                    • #11
                      If a vassal is being run into the ground during war with a third civ and manages to break away due to loss of land, will the vassal remain at war with the third civ?
                      LandMasses Version 3 Now Available since 18/05/2008.

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                      • #12
                        Can a human player capitulate to an AI?

                        If so, can you break away?

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                        • #13
                          Humans can not be vassals of AI. Humans can only become vassals in multiplayer games.
                          Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
                          Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
                          I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man

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                          • #14
                            When are we going to get your review solver? We are dying of anticipation here!
                            http://monkspider.blogspot.com/

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Solver
                              Humans can not be vassals of AI. Humans can only become vassals in multiplayer games.
                              Well I'll be. My my.
                              Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
                              "We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La Rochefoucauld

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