Changing Civics

[johnmcd]

Spirtual aside, I always change all the civics I want to at a time, I have occasional long periods of anarchy rather than frequent short periods.

Any thoughts on whether that is the best approach?

[Cort Haus]

If I'm building a wonder or researching a must-get-first tech and I need to change several civics, but one of them urgently I might do it in two bites.

So if I can get 2 changes for one turn anarchy, and 4 changes for 2 turns of anarchy I might take two now and two later.

[Quillan]

If I'm not playing a spiritual leader, I'll generally do them all at once. Under most circumstances, I know in advance when I'll be switching, like when I get Democracy I know I'll be going for Universal Sufferage and Emancipation at the same time. Assuming I do Democracy right after Constitution, I'll normally wait on switching to Free Speech, and do all three at once. Now, if only I could figure out a way to change a religion in addition to a civic. If you notice, adopting Free Religion doesn't leave your religion choice as "No state religion". When you go into anarchy, it reverts to its prior setting for the duration of the anarchy. I've had a number of open border agreements and trade treaties cancelled during anarchy, because they suddenly don't like me anymore.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Quillan
If you notice, adopting Free Religion doesn't leave your religion choice as "No state religion". When you go into anarchy, it reverts to its prior setting for the duration of the anarchy. I've had a number of open border agreements and trade treaties cancelled during anarchy, because they suddenly don't like me anymore.

That's an interesting point. I'll have to watch out for that.

[rah]

Yeah, I got dogpiled that way the last game I played.

[Arrian]

I typically try to max out the number of changes I can make for a given number of turns of anarchy. For instance, say I can switch over to slavery, but I'll soon complete the Oracle and get Civil Service. I'll hold off until I CS so I can switch to both slavery and bureacracy, which will still only cost me 1 turn of anarchy (instead of making 2 1-turn switches and thus "wasting" a turn). Sometimes I can also pair up Hed Rule and Org Rel, even if it means running without one or the other for a little bit. Anarchy is the enemy.

Later in the game, I'm often looking at a 2-turn anarchy. Last night I made a 4-civic switch:

Representation to Universal Suffrage
Serfdom to Emancipation
Mercantalism to Free Trade
Organized Religion to Free Religion

That cost me two turns. But there was no way to make it any better. Switching 3 of the 4 still would've taken 2 turns, so that's no good.

-Arrian

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Quillan
If you notice, adopting Free Religion doesn't leave your religion choice as "No state religion". When you go into anarchy, it reverts to its prior setting for the duration of the anarchy. I've had a number of open border agreements and trade treaties cancelled during anarchy, because they suddenly don't like me anymore.

Never noticed that - will watch out for it now.

[Jaybe]

Playing marathon games, anarchy periods can become extensive if my empire is large (huge maps). When I have a civics-change opportunity I investigate whether 1 or more civic changes are best, anarchy-wise (might be 2 turns vs. 3, or a 3 vs. 4 turns). I might delay a 1-civic change for a 2-civic. I have even done a 3-civic change once, it only cost me 5 turns.

[MasterDave]

I generally try to keep my civics up to date regardless of arnarchy penalties, although I will put it off if in a wonder/ first to get a tech race. The benefits of most civics advances I like to use outweigh the loss of research and production from anarchy in most instances.

[Yosho]

Yeah, I agree with MasterDave. If a civic is worth the period of anarchy, I'll usually switch right away. If it's not, I generally won't switch at all. There's a small grey area where it'd be useful to switch if it only cost me 1 extra turns instad of 2 extra turns and so it might be worthwhile to do it while switching others, but generally, if it's a big enough change to be worth it, it's worth doing right away. I'd rather have that +25% bonus to making buildings from org religion now, instead of waiting 50 turns for some other great civic to come around, even if it costs me an extra turn of anarachy.

[Arrian]

Sometimes it's worth it, sometimes it's worthwhile to wait a few turns to package another civic switch in and thus avoid an extra turn of anarchy.

I'm thinking specifically of early game switches to slavery/org rel/hed rule... stuff like that.

-Arrian

[rah]

and you must consider the length of time before you can revolt again when timing one. Sometimes I'll wait to do both at once so I don't get stuck not being able to revolt right away for the next one.

[Nacht]

It also depends on game speed. I play marathon and some civic changes cost only one turn. The equivalent on normal speed would be 1/3 turn, since that's impossible the same change is on normal three times more expensive.

[couerdelion]

If there's a reasonably long period until I will want another switch I will change at the most convenient time - but not if my cities have large production overflows.

Towards the middle/late game where lots of civics arrive together, I'll definitely group them together. Anarchy costs a lot more than most realise.

[rah]

YEs, it would be nice if there was a wonder that eliminated anarchy available around the midgame when you need it the most.