Questions - workers, WWs etc...

[Mr. Swan]

Hello all, have just signed up here, but have been reading the threads for about a month. Thanks to these threads (Vel's guide, Arrian and Blake to name a few), I have improved and am attempting the higher difficulties - immortal/deity (unsuccessfully so far).

My original question is about workers: I always seem to find I have too many or too few, often because I don't have the necessary techs (CS, biology, railroad), but I want to keep them when i do get these techs.

So, what do you do about surplus workers, I find that they are usually the thing that I spend most time on - thinking and thinking what I should do with them, as sleep/deleting them seems like a waste.

Grouping helps when I have too many. Do they cost money to maintain? Which I suppose is the same with any unit - I cant bring myself to delete surplus units, even though they are obsoleted and I always have more important units to upgrade with my money.

I find I'm unable to even think about completing WWs, because there is so much to build because the AI rips through the tech tree, so you have to keep up. This makes so many of them near-impossible to get to first.

Lastly, maintenance costs are so high, that I have to have so many cottages and cash bonuses to keep my tech at a decent level, so I prefer to use financial civs (Catherine with creativity and Cossacks )

So many questions...

[Arrian]

Heh, I'm glad to have helped at all. I'm amused that you're up to Immortal/Diety and I'm still playing Prince

I typically do not find that my workers have nothing to do... I usually can find *something* to build with them, even if it's roads on random desert tiles in the midst of my empire. The only time I've ever deleted workers is in the endgame, when everything is built (every tile RR'd).

As for wonders, on those levels of play it's probably best to largely ignore them (unless you're industrious and have whatever resource speeds a wonder's construction - like if you play Qin, have copper and take a shot at the Colossus).

But frankly, given the level of play you're talking about, I'm out of my depth!

-Arrian

[Quillan]

I have no experience with those difficulty levels either, but like Arrian, I don't delete workers until late in the game, once everything is built. They do cost money to maintain, the same as any other unit, so you'll have to decide how many workers you need.

[Mr. Swan]

Thanks for your replies, I agree with them, and know that its the right way of doing things, but I can never get the right balance.

As for the difficulty level, I just prefer playing out of my depth than playing at levels that I know I can probably do well on. I learn a lot quicker by trial and error, rather than gradual progression I suppose. The downside to this is that I don't have such an all round understanding of the game, and I'm limited to certain techniques/civilizations.

[Arrian]

Do you find on those levels, though, that you are forced into an aggressive playstyle?

It's not that I mind fighting, it's that I don't like to get pigeon-holed into it.

-Arrian

[DrSpike]

Arrian is right. Though it is true that playing too low teaches you bad habits you'll regret picking up later playing too high doesn't forge you into a better player overall. The paths you must take are more defined, and you will become skilled at them, but this doesn't necessarily make you much more skilled overall.

Having played all levels from Noble upwards except Deity I prefer Monarch or Emperor. If I had to choose I'd say Monarch is my favourite.

Having said that if you must bear the pain of immortal (I wont comment on deity as I haven't played it - most 'strategies' there though are pick civ with powerful early UU and rush rush rush and hope) remember you need a strategy to stay in the tech race, which usually involves an early alphabet. Don't dawdle on the way. Also, you can't expand too much because if you get it too late (because of high maintenance) you are in trouble. Expansion can be managed with courthouses and currency etc. Civs with nice early early/mid game UUs are good because you'll probably need them to get enough territory to become competitive, given that you expand slower than on lower levels and the AI expands faster.

[zeace]

One way to deal with too few workers is through civics. You can speed 'em up by 50% with Serfdom. Obviously this works best for a spiritual civ, but it can be a nice boost to switch to Serf right after getting a tech like railroads and building your network with fewer workers.

Just remember that the loss of slavery or caste or emancipation for a few turns seems expensive, but compared to the cost of building and maintaing an excessive number of workers it might be worth it. If you plan your game around a civic switch later in the game, you can reduce your worker production early which helps population and other production.

[DrSpike]

Hmm, serfdom sucks.

[Mr. Swan]

yeah, you do get forced to fight, it isnt ideal, but you can get some pretty amazing deals from the AI for a treaty - 4 cities, gold, 4 gpt and about 6 of their techs. you get back in the game, then a couple of turns later you're behind again. I'm beginning to get a little fed up at the moment, so am going to drop a level, then come back to it.

[Dominae]

You may be building too many Workers if you consistently notice that they are sitting around idle most of the time. Remember that you only need to improve the tiles you are actually going to use, so it's not essential to have everything improved ASAP because your cities grow in stages based on Happiness/Health caps.

I often re-improve the land that I take from the AI through conquest. Because of this my Workers are almost always busy, despite the new slaves (um, recruits) I get from other civs.

I would not hesitate to delete Workers if you find they are consting you upkeep, especially if your military is large and not taking losses in the foreseeable future. Even a few gpt adds up; consider that this is what most Courthouses saves you.

If you Workers really have nothing to do, you can use them as tourists/spies in other nations that you have Open Borders treaties with. This provides valuable intelligence. While military units do the job equally well, you might want to be keeping these at home for use with Hereditary Rule.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Dominae
If you Workers really have nothing to do, you can use them as tourists/spies in other nations that you have Open Borders treaties with. This provides valuable intelligence. While military units do the job equally well, you might want to be keeping these at home for use with Hereditary Rule.

The workers are on a gap year abroad.

I've actually used spare Missionaries in this Intel role when everyone in range had Theocracy.

[Mr. Swan]

Originally posted by Dominae
I would not hesitate to delete Workers if you find they are consting you upkeep, especially if your military is large and not taking losses in the foreseeable future. Even a few gpt adds up; consider that this is what most Courthouses saves you.

If you Workers really have nothing to do, you can use them as tourists/spies in other nations that you have Open Borders treaties with. This provides valuable intelligence. While military units do the job equally well, you might want to be keeping these at home for use with Hereditary Rule.

Good points, I normally stick with Hereditary Rule for quite a while.