Moving up to prince, getting rushed by AI

[wardhali]

as I make the jump from noble to prince, i am getting wiped out in the ancient age.

i usually play with aggressive AI, to spce things up, but i turned it off and am getting Jumped in 500s BC



my general strategy is to expamd to 2 citys asap a couple warriors in each and make a CS sling, grab alpha and trade down to fill in missing tech, then bee line for samurai and go on the warpath. (play as japan)

but i find that one or two people start throwing thier entier weight into making a militar for the express pupose of killing me!

is it that i must build a millitary that slows down my early jump to prevent a devastating war?

My strat revolves around getting enough infrastructure to get my samurai going early, and then steamrolling nation afternation spamming cheap courthouses to a domination victory.


oh, i play marathon pangia, sometimes turning off barbs.


i have no idea what to do... i am gunna try an early military strat, but i stink at that

[johnmcd]

You need to consider your neighbours, if it's Ghandi and Mansa Munsa, you're current strategy should work fine.

If it's not, get in archery before you start on your usual beelines. You should still be able to pull off the slingshot most games at Prince anyway, and the times you can't it will probably not come as a surprise because of your starting position.

It is worth remembering though that you have taken a step up in difficulty and are finding it more difficult, which is what you asked for!

[Blake]

Do unto others before others do unto you...

At marathon speed you're definitely going to want pre-samuari wars... the main reason to play marathon is to have more wars because units take much longer to obsolete...

[Smellycowsquid]

Originally posted by Blake
Do unto others before others do unto you...

I have just recently made the jump, and had trouble, with an everexpanding AI(and tech superior), the key to winning is war early for your first few games, capture some of your neighbor's key cities. With that production and science Base, it will become easier.

[Arrian]

Two suggestions:

1) Try playing with raging barbs on - perhaps back down on warlord at first. This will force you to be more proactive about your defenses.

2) Start picking on the AI in the early going - if possible, steal your closest neighbor's worker. You don't have to conquer them - make peace as soon as possible in fact - but taking a worker will cripple them for a bit. Then build up and kill them.

...

You may also want to use civs with early UUs:

Inca
Mali
Egypt
Persia

The first two have useful units that don't require resources. The latter need horses, but can do baaaaad things to the AI. Immortals against the AI in the early going is basically unfair.

-Arrian

[johnmcd]

Don't steal their workers, early on. I reckon it's an exploit as the AI would never do it to you.

[padillah]

Originally posted by johnmcd
Don't steal their workers, early on. I reckon it's an exploit as the AI would never do it to you.

Except - the AI has done it to me. Several times. So steal away.

Tom P.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by johnmcd
Don't steal their workers, early on. I reckon it's an exploit as the AI would never do it to you.

It may indeed be a tad exploitish. And, as one's play improves, one can discard that particular crutch. Although you'll never convince me that using a borderline "exploit" of that nature on a really high level of play (say, Emperor or Deity) isn't ok. After all, starting at Monarch level, they get a free worker at the start anyway

On Prince... you've got a point.

-Arrian

[gdgrimm]

Your strategy seems sound. You just need to improve the technique to take into account the higher level that you're now playing at.

Your strategy requires you to keep peace in the Ancient Era. Here are the best ways....

1) Give the enemy whatever they ask for.
2) Adapt their religion
3) Maintain a comparable size army.

I'm guessing that you're being attacked primarily because of not accomplishing #3. At this higher level, your enemies will have more and better military units earlier than at the previous level. This means that you'll need to build more and better units earlier at this level to keep #3 true.

That will, of course, make it harder to pull off your Slingshot. And you may find that a 2-city and build tactic won't be enough cities on this level, due to the increased ease of enemy expansion at this level.

Of course, running into those challenges and figuring out how to overcome them is why you moved up a level in the first place.

[Yosho]

You can't completly ignore millitary techs while you first get the oracle, do the whole slingshot, and then go for alphabet before you get any millitary techs at all. That's a long, long time with just warriors, and that just won't work.

At the very least, you need to get bronzeworking and get some axemen up and going before you take the long, long tech path to alphabet. If you're going to saumuri early, you want bronzeworking anyway, and you'll still be the first one to alphabet by a good margin; the AI does not make it a priority. Even just getting the oracle before any millitary techs is a risk, and if you're still having trouble you might want to think about just biting the bullet and going for bronzeworking first.

[Arrian]

At the very least, you need archers. If you can secure horses, you can get by with chariots for some time (combat1 + shock chariots have the upper hand against barb axemen, for instance).

But yeah, alphabet before bronze is a bit of a stretch. I tend to pick up the metals right after the slingshot, and only then think about alphabet.

Consider this: the AI generally doesn't go for the alphabet early. I get to it first by a longshot in my games. Until I get it, I'm immune from AI tech demands.

-Arrian

[wardhali]

thanks, i was afraid that i would just have to bite the bullet and build a decent millitary, in the past my strategy was to keep a low standing army, then focus all eforts on millitary, throw massive waves of units after them, when most of them die off, make peace, and not have to worry about unit costs, but if I dont keep up a good army on prince, it seems that i will be in constant warfare. well, i guess thats what i get for moving up right?

[Arrian]

In my experience, Prince is pretty peaceful... even if you're not a military giant. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder. If you're such a builder that one warrior per city is your standard military... yeah, you're in for trouble on Prince.

-Arrian

[Randolph]

Originally posted by Arrian
Two suggestions:

1) Try playing with raging barbs on - perhaps back down on warlord at first. This will force you to be more proactive about your defenses.

2) Start picking on the AI in the early going - if possible, steal your closest neighbor's worker. You don't have to conquer them - make peace as soon as possible in fact - but taking a worker will cripple them for a bit. Then build up and kill them.

...

You may also want to use civs with early UUs:

Inca
Mali
Egypt
Persia

The first two have useful units that don't require resources. The latter need horses, but can do baaaaad things to the AI. Immortals against the AI in the early going is basically unfair.

-Arrian

Apparently with Warlords Cyrus will be charismatic/imperial, meaning that those immortals will get two upgrades with a barracks (charismatic), you’ll get an early building boost to get those immortals out earlier and balance the funds spend on war (+25% settler production), and you could very well end up with a “great general” for your troubles (double great general production). I’m not much of an early rusher, but I’ll have to see what can be done with this.

[Randolph]

A bit more on topic, I recently played a game as Japan (monarch) with the plan that I would “get samurais early,” and I would definitely suggest that you have a pre-samurai military plan. Japan’s traits don’t lend themselves to being an early economic winner, so your neighbors are likely to outpace you in a pure builder struggle. This means that even if you shoot right for civil service + ironworking, your samurais might be too little, to late, to make up for the econ/tech gap (particularly given the AI’s reluctance to hand over tech after being beaten).
I ended up conquering a neighbor with swords just to keep up. I certainly bashed some heads with samurais, but it was largely counterproductive overexpansion. Of course every game is different, so good luck.