jet fighter intercepted by simple fighter?

[Gen.Dragolen]

Originally posted by Randolph
...
It's always seemed that the "it’s not realistic" argument is typically motivated by (1) just being annoyed that you lost, (2) wanting one obvious and easy strategy for military victory combined with a general overestimation of the importance of technology in warfare.

Honestly I think Civ4 has gone too far in making superior technology a trump; I liked the Civ3 balance a bit more.

Randolf, the problem is that it is an over simplied game format that pretends to have 'realistic' combat model. The AI cannot seem to handle anything very realistic or complicated like we all know real life is. Call it a design limitation of the current programming AI models.

So like any other self respecting wanna-be megalomaniac, as a whole, we take reversals of fortune rather poorly. Especially when the game tells you you have a 99+% chance of victory on the attack and then have your unit die anyways. So we have succeeded yet again in snatching Defeat from from the Jaws of Victory, much to our chagrin, embarassment, confusion, etc...

And back to your main point: yes, your tech portfolio is a definite trump versus the AI. I have been able to use the CS Slingshot approach even if I don't get the Oracle, and still clean the AI's clock with more modern units, better organization and tactics. Like any self respecting war or domineering culture mongerer, what's mine is mine and what's the AI's is also mine. The AI just doesn't know it yet.

Since at the higher levels the AI has considerably more advantages than the player, we need to have one card left to play to make the game worth playing.

[Urban Ranger]

Re: jet fighter intercepted by simple fighter?

Originally posted by aracuan_76
of course this isnt realistic;a jet fighter caanot be shoten down from a ww2 fighter!

Really?

I am not sure how knowledgable about WWII is. Near the end of the war the Nazis developed several models of jet fighters, e.g. the Me-191 (IIRC) and the Me-262. Yet they weren't invincible against prop fighters.

Later on during the Korean war, the US was fielding prop fighters against Soviet's jets. The USAF didn't get completely destroyed.

What you are thinking of is a modern jet fighter such as the Su-30MKK going against a Me-109. However your image is just not circumspect enough.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Quillan
It's even less realistic for a stealth bomber to be intercepted by a WWII fighter, but it happens in the game.

Acutally a stealth bomber is a very clumsy piece of flying machine. You notice how they aways sortie at night? Yeah.

[Nugog]

It is a statistical anomoly of the combat system.

It can seem strange, but it happens. Other strange things happen as well, like Saladin founding Judaism.

It's not realistic, but it happens.

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by Gen.Dragolen
So like any other self respecting wanna-be megalomaniac, as a whole, we take reversals of fortune rather poorly. Especially when the game tells you you have a 99+% chance of victory on the attack and then have your unit die anyways. So we have succeeded yet again in snatching Defeat from from the Jaws of Victory, much to our chagrin, embarassment, confusion, etc...

I am sure that historically plenty of leaders have been told by their generals that a particular situation would be a piece of cake ... just before they lose their arse (and maybe their life). Nothing trumps stupidity in battle, not even technology!

[johnmcd]

Greece could never win the European Football Championships, it's just not realistic.

[arthurdent2k]

Originally posted by johnmcd
Greece could never win the European Football Championships, it's just not realistic.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by johnmcd
Greece could never win the European Football Championships, it's just not realistic.

I don't think a Greek team ever did win the Euro Cup or some such. However they did win in Olympics 2004

[Palpster]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


I don't think a Greek team ever did win the Euro Cup or some such. However they did win in Olympics 2004

....oh really?...think again

[Will9]

Are you you talking about American football or American soccer? (I think it's American soccer but I'm not sure)

[Ming]

Hmmm... this thread took a strange off topic turn...

Back on subject please

[johnmcd]

It wholly on topic, I just made the point that the 'impossible' happens. Greece, a fourth rate football team (sorry Mark, but y'know...) won the European Championships in 2004.

The whole 'it would never happen' thing does, in fact, happen.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

On topic:

A jet fighter attacking a town would have to drop down to subsonic speeds in order to do so. Anything that has to stay in a fixed flight path (bombing run) at subsonic speeds would likely be vulnerable to prop planes.

And yes, I know that jets now carry smart bombs and cruise missiles that can be launched far away from (and well above) the target. But you can't assume a Civ4 jet is similarly armed.

I've made a lot of these arguments in other threads so I won't go on... maybe I just have too much imagination to find implausible combat results outrageous.

Do fighters beat jets all the time? More than half the time? If they do, I'd say it's unrealistic. If it's rare - why worry about it, since it won't impact gameplay much.

And my last point, on the subject of gameplay - if jets always beat fighters (and Modern Armour always beat tanks, and Riflemen always beat Macemen, and so on), it seems to me that the game would become a simple tech race. It wouldn't matter if your opponent had built a huge force of Cavalry and Riflemen - you'd just need to station one Infantry unit in each city, and watch the opponent beat itself to death trying to take your cities. Doesn't seem like much fun.

[Yosho]

Yeah. Combat in real life is always a crapshoot. In Vietnam, we had jet planes shot down by small arms fire. All it takes is one bullet in a bad place.