Deep Slingshot

[rah]

I tried this yesterday. Very interesting. But it was very different since Bronze working is one of the usual first few techs. Having no chop or slavery really threw me off normal things. I didn't get it as early as mentioned but got it quite a bit earlier than a normal game.

Blake, your list says to avoid researching it but it's not on you list. So I was a bit confused.

[NFIH]

Do any of these slingshots account for the fact that there doesn't appear to be a military being built and so you will be attacked by the AIs anyway, thus ruining your plans?

Or are the game settings (e.g. some kind of islands) such that you don't have to worry about being attacked during this initial period because no one can get to you anyway?

[Azuarc]

I'll have to give this a shot, since I have a save game with, iirc, Elizabeth in an absolutely amazing spot for commerce, on an island.

I think talking about this begs two important questions, though:
1) Is there any other tech research path worth trying this sort of idea with? (Probably not, other than maybe the specific final goal, since some of the stuff along the way are central.)
2) Let's pretend for a moment that we start with all techs up to the row with Philosophy and Civil Service in it. What is the best beeline to make use of the free tech from Liberalism? If nothing else, what is the best use of getting a free tech from Liberalism?

[Blake]

Originally posted by rah
I tried this yesterday. Very interesting. But it was very different since Bronze working is one of the usual first few techs. Having no chop or slavery really threw me off normal things. I didn't get it as early as mentioned but got it quite a bit earlier than a normal game.

Blake, your list says to avoid researching it but it's not on you list. So I was a bit confused.

Bronze Working unlocks Iron Working which will distract the GS. Likewise fishing unlocks Sailing. Altough as mentioned several times it's quite possible to research some, or even all, of the tech path manually, avoiding BW/Fishing is only needed if you want to lightbulb Liberalism itself. Settled GS's generate a lot of beakers if you pop them out early enough.

Do any of these slingshots account for the fact that there doesn't appear to be a military being built and so you will be attacked by the AIs anyway, thus ruining your plans?

Or are the game settings (e.g. some kind of islands) such that you don't have to worry about being attacked during this initial period because no one can get to you anyway?

Nah. They rely on the lameness of the noble AI or islands settings.

The multiplayer versions rely on (I believe) low difficulty levels (ie Noble) and small map sizes (Duel/Tiny) which combined make techs very cheap to research/lightbulb. Also Great People are pretty easy to generate while still building military, especially for ind or philo.

Avoiding researching the certain techs is not a big deal, in MP, players are VERY effeciency orientated, if a tech isn't absolutely needed it wont be researched, Masonry and religious techs are far from needed, they verge on useless, especially for a player with no stone/marble.

[rah]

Thanks for the clarification. I ended up researching Lib anyway. This was an entertaining to try and now to see how much help it will be in normal games. Against the AI this will help a lot, against other MPers, (who seem to be ahead of me on the learning curve) we'll see.

It's nice to see that some of the mechanics in the game that were thought to be too mystifying are being looked at and unraveled.

[Elledge]

Originally posted by Blake
The multiplayer versions rely on (I believe) low difficulty levels (ie Noble) and small map sizes (Duel/Tiny) which combined make techs very cheap to research/lightbulb. Also Great People are pretty easy to generate while still building military, especially for ind or philo.

Do small maps affect tech rate? I didn't think that was the case.

[joncnunn]

Or, simply set "Always Peace" on.

Originally posted by NFIH
Do any of these slingshots account for the fact that there doesn't appear to be a military being built and so you will be attacked by the AIs anyway, thus ruining your plans?

Or are the game settings (e.g. some kind of islands) such that you don't have to worry about being attacked during this initial period because no one can get to you anyway?

[Palpster]

Although I'm a builder type all the way even I don't like to play with "Always Peace" on. This makes this tech strat not very practical. Very interesting, mind you, but not very practical.

[johnmcd]

With 'always peace' does the AI put up a better fight at cultural wins?

[MasterDave]

Against the AI on Monarch or Emperor, I can usually complete the CS Slingshot around 1500 or 1600 BC given some friendly terrain (Ex. a river for cottages or gold, fur, etc). The AI will generally not declare war by this time.

The bigger threat comes from barbarians. My normal build order allows me to build three or four warriors from my second city while my capital is building the Oracle. This is usually enough to keep the barbs under control (especially if one has Quechas instead of warriors). Multiplayer opponents generally are not ready to lauch a serious offensive by this time either.

[samspock]

Something I have noticed that would help if you want marble for the oracle but don't want masonry: Capture a city that has a marble quarry already and build roads back to your capital. You don't need masonry to use marble, only to build the quarry. If one is there already then you get the marble!

This also works for Stone and anything else that has the improvement on a visible resource. It does not work for anything that needs to be revealed. I capured a city that had a pasture around nothing. I saw that it was horses later on.

So stay away from masonry and go take a city that has a quarry! I like that stategy when it allows me to delay the building of the oracle until code of laws is farther along.

[Azuarc]

Except that you probably won't have enough of a military to take much of anything so early with this strat.

[rah]

By the time I find an AI quarried square and can take control of it, the Oracle is usually already built.

[samspock]

One word: Quecha's.

Not the best for the deep slingshot but definately for early conquest.

[Mr Justice]

i'll second that word samspock

Quecha's

its posisble to do early conquest and cs slingshot but requires many favourable factors.