What to build in the early game, Marathon

[Datajack Franit]

Basically I want to know what are you guys building in the first turns, when AI flooding hasn't begun yet and everybody is almost at the same level. Medium-High difficulty level (Prince to Emperor)


My list is:

Capital builds:

Settler
Settler

2 cities are founded at the same time, (one at the closest perfect site, another at a quite-far decent site) to syncronize the next productions for all the 3 cities

Capital, 2nd and 3rd build:

Worker (completed sooner than the 2nd)
Worker (completed slightly sooner than the 3rd)
Worker

Basic terraforming (SMAC ) irrigation, road connections to spread the eventual religion

Capital builds:
Warrior (protection)
Warrior (garrison)
Warrior (strategic exploration of AI borders)

2nd and 3rd build:
Settler
Settler

4th and 5th city founded at the same time for the same reasons previouly explained

Capital builds:

Obelisk/Archer (according to the neighbors' personality)

2nd and 3rd build:

Obelisk
Archer

4th and 5th build:

Worker
Worker


At this point, all those workers have completed the basic trade network/resources grab and can now focus on chopping forests to death for anything from GW to cultural improvements that enlarge the borders and slow down AI city flooding

Your opinion is welcome

[fed1943]

Begin with 2 settlers and 1 workers?

Strong settlers, workers and cities you have there.

How long to build said 3 unities?

And still no defence.

Best regards,

[Quillan]

It depends on the circumstances, but I almost always begin with 2 warriors. Most of the time I play Catherine, so I start with a scout, and the techs of Mining and Hunting. Unless I've got gold/silver or fur/elephants nearby, workers and settlers are delayed a bit. I won't build a worker until the city is size 2 or 3, and definitely not until I've got something that worker can do, which in the absence of the aforementioned resources means getting The Wheel, or Agriculture, Bronze Working or Pottery. Settlers don't come out until the city is at least size 3 and I've identified a good spot for city # 2.

[Datajack Franit]

Originally posted by fed1943
Begin with 2 settlers and 1 workers?

Strong settlers, workers and cities you have there.

How long to build said 3 unities?

And still no defence.

Best regards,

Well, in the early stages of the game I don't need any kind of defence, as I always switch barbs off (they always attack the human player, and the AI already have too much advantage on Emperor), the free unit can start exploring and looking for huts, that may eventually give some free units more even more exploration.

I think a settler takes 50 turns to be completed on Marathon? (I'm having holidays and I didn't bring civ4 here) I guess if it's correct, 50+50+20 (?) turns for a worker makes it 120 turns

[Datajack Franit]

Originally posted by Quillan
It depends on the circumstances, but I almost always begin with 2 warriors. Most of the time I play Catherine, so I start with a scout, and the techs of Mining and Hunting.

I guess it's a good strategy as long as you play with Russia (Germany here), at least one of those goody huts will give you irrigation/wheel

[rah]

When I start as Catherine, my first unit is another scout while I'm waiting for city to grow to size two. You don't lose that many turns since the worker or settler built next is produced faster. My first scout will head out, and the second scout can be used to scout around home and be available for export services. Nothing worse than losing that first settler popped to barbs.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

If you're playing without barbs, that's a whole different game.

The received wisdom I have about Marathon is that 1) unit costs aren't increased as much as improvement costs, and 2) because of the slower research, units don't get obsolete quickly.

So I build a lot of units. Warriors to sit on hills in what would otherwise be the fog (later to be supplemented with archers).

The thing with Marathon is, if the barbs show up with Axemen/Swordsmen and all you have is one or 2 Archers defending a city, youll lose it. And you can't really hope to weather that kind of storm until you get your own Axemen, because that could take a long time. So my main priority is defence against barbs. And a big, intimidating stack to brandish at Monty.

[Badtz Maru]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit



Well, in the early stages of the game I don't need any kind of defence, as I always switch barbs off (they always attack the human player, and the AI already have too much advantage on Emperor)

I thought this myth had already been pretty thoroughly proven as untrue. Barbarians show some small preferences for attacking player units on a tactical level, but the bonus the AI gets vs. barbarians does not effect their strategic choices - a barbarian, given the choice of attacking two otherwise equal units that turn will give preference to the player unit over the AI unit as it's perceived as being weaker, but a barbarian unit is not going to go past an AI controlled part of the map to find a player to attack.

[Nugog]

I usually build three to four warriors first.

It sort of depends on the starting terrain etc.

Also if I have scouts immediatley available I will build 2 x scouts and 2 x warriors.

I have, however, never played with barbs turned off - I love the free XP

[Fosse]

Re: What to build in the early game, Marathon

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
Capital builds:

Settler
Settler

2 cities are founded at the same time, (one at the closest perfect site, another at a quite-far decent site) to syncronize the next productions for all the 3 cities

Am I correctly understanding that you build a settler and then do not immediatly settle a new city, but instead wait until another settler is built so you can build the two cities at the same time?

I cannot imagine what benefit simultaneously building three workers has over planting that second city right away and starting a worker earlier. That's a lot of turns spent at size one (two settlers and a worker), with no other city building anything.

Please tell me I misunderstood you!

[Urban Ranger]

I build scouts (or warriors if I don't have hunting) until my capital gets to size 3, then switch to a worker and then a settler. This way I get more huts then the rest of them combined. Okay, maybe not.

[Blake]

On Marathon speed it is a very good idea to whip settlers, this can be done at size 4, 2 pop gives 180 hammers, while a settler costs 200 hammers, so you need to invest 20 hammers first (alternatively you can grow to size 6, then whip for 3 pop with 60+ overflow, this is better if you have lots of food).
Workers can also be whipped from size 4, they cost 120 hammers, so if you whip them with minimal hammers invested you get a nice 60+ hammer overflow for anything else. Note for workers you DON'T need to put a turn in first, you can just switch'n'whip (because of bugged whipping). You can also whip them at size 2 or 3 by putting in 30 hammers first then whipping the last 90 hammers, this is probably a very good idea, since they get to work for all that time that they'd otherwise spend stinking up the production queue.

Whipping workers/settlers is quite a lot better than training them normally... especially with granaries, but even without granaries.

[Datajack Franit]

Re: Re: What to build in the early game, Marathon

Originally posted by Fosse


Am I correctly understanding that you build a settler and then do not immediatly settle a new city, but instead wait until another settler is built so you can build the two cities at the same time?

I cannot imagine what benefit simultaneously building three workers has over planting that second city right away and starting a worker earlier. That's a lot of turns spent at size one (two settlers and a worker), with no other city building anything.

Please tell me I misunderstood you!

Of course you did

Have a look here


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I was writing a strategic guide but at 4.11 am it's crazy stuff Well, have a look anyway

[Eggolas]

With an Organized civ and a decent hammer starting position, I'll often begin building a barracks.

[Mr Justice]

i see why you build no warriors when Barbs turned off.

but barbs on is a bonus to the player,
sure its possible to lose units and cities to barbarians,
but good defensive positions reduce this risk.

but players have big advantage when taking on barb cities that AIs dont take advantage of.

plus barbs slow down AI growth more so than player growth. i used h8 them until i realise that they hamper AI far more than meh.

plus is a great nail bitter in early days, knowing that first Barb axeman is out there somewhere, when all i got is a mass of warriors to defend my self.