The Barbarians Are At The Gates... And On BBC2

[molly bloom]

Terry Jones (blessing be upon him) of Monty Pythion fame has for the past three weeks been on BBC 2 on Friday at 21. 00 presenting a four-part series (sorry, would have posted this earlier, I've been unwell) on the 'barbarian' foes of Ancient and Later Rome, such as the Celts of Gaul, Helvetia and Britain, the Goths and Germans, the Dacians and the Seleucids, Parthians and Sassanids.


Of course one of the difficulties inherent in an educational system and culture based on Graeco-Roman Judaeo-Christian principles and propaganda, is that the foes of Greece and Rome, and the pagans, all get a thoroughly bad press, from Julius Caesar's own writings, to the early Church fathers.

Jones has attempted (in a fairly easy-going manner) to begin to correct some of the propaganda in this series and book. I recommend catching the last episode or taping it (lest it coincide with some football match- there seems to be some kind of competition on at the moment- anyone know what it is ?) .

Terry Jones' Barbarians takes a completely unique approach to Roman history. No one nowadays would try to tell the story of the British Empire from the point of view of the British, but it's still the case that the story of the Roman Empire is always told from the perspective of Rome. Well, not any more!

Accompanying a 4-part BBC2 series, also fronted by Terry Jones, this is the story of Roman history as seen by the Britons, Gauls, Germans, Hellenes, Persians and Africans. And suddenly the Romans don't look at all familiar. In place of the propaganda spectacles the Romans pushed on our noses, we'll see these people as they really were. The Vandals didn't vandalize - the Romans did. The Goths didn't sack Rome - the Romans did. Attlia the Hun didn't go to Constantinople to destroy it, but because the emperor's daughter wanted to marry him. Show an Asterix comic to an ancient Gaul and - surprise, surprise - he wouldn't realise that it was supposed to be about him. His life was more sophisticated than a Roman's, not more primitive.

Terry Jones travels round the geography of the Roman Empire - through Europe and Africa - bringing wit, irreverence, passion and the very latest scholarship to transform a history that seemed well past its sell-by date, and make it relevant to living with the new American world empire.

http://www.bbcshop.com/invt/0563493186

Those uncivilized Persians:

[Yosho]

In terms of economy, trade, and general quality of life issues, the archeological evidence is pretty clear that the Gaul's life was not more sophisticated then the life of a Roman.

[Arrian]

That assertion jumped out at me as well. The basic idea, however, is interesting. I hope the History Channel or Discovery picks this up at some point.

-Arrian

[Dis]

I wish I could get more BBC channels on my cable. All I get is the crappy BBC shows.

[fluffy]

Originally posted by Yosho
In terms of economy, trade, and general quality of life issues, the archeological evidence is pretty clear that the Gaul's life was not more sophisticated then the life of a Roman.

Barbarians were a very varied lot: although the Gauls might not be more sophisticated than Romans, the Parthians and Dacians certainly were.

The Romans valued military success over sophistication in any case - they mocked Greeks for their obsession with knowledge and butchered Aristotle because they could not understand what he did.

[Addled Platypus]

get well soon Molly

[Yosho]

Originally posted by fluffy


Barbarians were a very varied lot: although the Gauls might not be more sophisticated than Romans, the Parthians and Dacians certainly were.

Talking in economic terms, the complexity and sophistication of Roman trade was really amazing. Trade goods that included pottery and crematics of a higher quality then anyone in Europe was able to make after the fall of the empire for more then 1000 years, wine, food items of all kinds, high-quality tile roofs, and many other trade good traveled hundereds of miles and were used by even poor citizans of Rome from Britian to the Middle East and everywhere in between. No one else in the world had that kind of economic sophistication and specilization, or produced the same quantity or quality of trade goods at the time, with the possible exception of China. The evidence suggests that even the lower classes of people in the Roman Empire had higher quality pottery and other goods then some Germanic kings were buried with, and certanly more goods and higher quality goods then anyone in Europe had after the fall of the Roman Empire. Same is true for the size and type of buildings the Romans built compared to the size and type of buildings the other Europeans built, ect.

[Prussia]

You're kidding about the football lot, right?

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Yosho


No one else in the world had that kind of economic sophistication and specilization, or produced the same quantity or quality of trade goods at the time, with the possible exception of China.

Only if you also exclude the various entities that occupied modern day Iran too.

And the Ptolemaic dynasty in Egypt, too.

Sassanid silverware, for instance, ended up as far away as Japan, where it left its stylistic influences. As for the Romans producing the ceramics and pottery, one needs to distinguish between pottery and ceramics made by subject peoples of the Roman Empire who were already producing those goods, and any goods originating from Roman workshops. The Greeks, after all, had been producing pottery and black figure ware when the Romans were still a cultural backwater.

What stands out though is the Roman desire to incorporate and subjugate exisiting foreign trading networks and foreign goods into an overarching Roman system, from the destruction of the Carthaginian empire- a sea-based trading empire at first reliant upon the export of precious metals 'unappreciated' by the peoples who lived near the deposits, who would exchange tin and silver and copper for finished goods and foodstuffs- and the incorporation of the gold mines of Gaul and Dacia and the great Celtic amber and salt trade routes.

After all, the Celts had been trading with the Etruscans and the Greeks and the Phoenicians before upstart Rome came along...


Shapur II of the Sassanid Empire: