tech in the mid-to-late game

[Azuarc]

We've all experienced the early game quite extensively. Some of us even read the old Vel strategy thread. However, while the subject of early game decision-making has been discussed at length, I seem to know very little about good decision-making in the mid- and late game. Seems like I do the same wrong things all the time.

I realize this is an *extremely* open-ended question, and begging to be specified for style or situation, but loosely speaking, where do you go with the game once you meet your initial out-the-gate objectives? Which of the seemingly-always three forks do you follow on the tech tree? Which units/buildings/wonders do you pursue, or more importantly not pursue? How do you not get your game stalled out in the medieval era? (I seem to turn into Mr. pacifist builder man during that era cause there are so many buildings to concern myself with.)

I played for a month when the game released, and I'm playing again a little now, but quite honestly, my mid-game sucks.

[Smellycowsquid]

If you make sure none of your opponents survive to the mid game, you don't need to worry much about it.

O.K. on a serious note, generally the mid-game is my expansion stage, I mass produce macemen and then Cavalry(Late or midgame unit?), but when I am not doing that, usually I will go for the techs which will help me acheive the desired victory, Space-Space techs, Space elevator thing, Culture-Broadway, Cathedrals, other wonders of cultural sign.,etc Diplomatic- UN, but will place more of an emphasis on (shudders) diplomacy. I know this really isn't what your looking for, but I tried.

[PaganPaulwhisky]

The mid-game phase of my game usually consists of massive religion spread and a push towards banking for my commerce multipliers (This is usually one of the only periods of military inaction in my games). This is the portion of the game that I really try to get my finances in order so that I can continue to expand. I also usually begin to set up my transforming my best food city into a GP farm. If I have pyramids, I will go organized religion and start cranking out buildings that allow specialists in many of my cities. It really depends on the civ traits and your position in the game.

Sometimes, If I have a strong production game going, I will crank out tons of knights and conquer my continent early, but I usually wait for cavalry or grenadiers.

[zeace]

Often my mid-game is centered around UU's. If I'm playing the French, English, or Russians, I tend to beeline towards the necessary techs for that unit.

If one of my neighbours is one of those civs, I research away from that path as I don't want them to get their UU early, and they'll end up researching that path so we can do some trading.

This strategy is true at any point in the game, but playing towards an early UU is usually something you decide to do from turn 1, and late game UUs are usually for mopping up a won game, so this idea is most important in the mid-game.

[Azuarc]

I apologize again for the complete open-endedness of the question. So let me try to put some more quantifiers in or at least some fuel for the discussion fire.

Usually when you start off the game, you're already well on the path to playing the game a certain way. There are effectively three ways that the game *tends* to branch as far as overall playstyle goes, which you've usually figured out by about 1000 BC even if you weren't planning it from the start.

A. Conquest - build armies, and run over your neighbors. Great for pangaeas and decent production starts.

B. Expansion - explore, settle, build your empire outward, possibly with some strategic military ops, but not much in the way of trying to utterly vanquish an opponent necessarily. Maybe you're simply expanding your religion into everyone else's lands, though.

C. Turtling - you have your eye on a certain point you intend on expanding to, either a fixed point you want to get to, or as much as your relation with your neighbors allows, and then you build upward rather than outward, focusing on economic growth.

And of course your game can be a combination of these factors, but it tends to be dominated by one of them. I very often fall into the trap of the third one, and I'm trying to teach myself not to grow complacent in that regard.

The issue is that probably by some point in the medieval/renaissance periods, I really should have my gameplan in front of me, but I prefer to let the game develop until later and I can see which way the game is taking me. However, each flavor of play has certain things you need to do to work effectively, and if you waffle too long, you're not going anywhere in particular. My best games are often the ones where I decide at turn one that I'm playing to accomplish X, and picking a leader for it, and just putting all my eggs in that basket. Still, even when I do, I often find that my path is often ambiguous when it isn't blatantly obvious.

[fed1943]

It looks everybody try develop in his/her middle game something it was neglegected.

So,it's like begin again the game,it sucks.

Best regards,

[couerdelion]

Obviously things depend on your initial set up and these comments refer specifically to continental maps. Assume monarch level or higher so it

Typically, I would find that the first stage of the game would be considered over once my early expansion and conquest has been completed. At this stage there will be a necessary consolidation and, I will assume that I already have techs to alphabet, code of laws and metal casting so there’s plenty to build in the new cities. I’ll also assume that conquest was achieved using swords and/or axes.

Assuming you have alphabet, then you can quite easily bee-line for techs and leave other weaker techs for backfilling. The basic techs that you probably want to go for are Civil Service and Currency while a quick detour to Literature will normally secure the Great Library and allow the construction of the Epic buildings. After that, I might go for Philosophy if my army is not too big but my main focus now will be for Optics (needs Compass and Machinery).

Some backfilling might be necessary if you are too far ahead but my main techs after Compass will typically be to focus towards Liberalism (needs Paper and Education). If I have time I’ll probably research or trade my way through to Gunpowder and perhaps also research Astronomy. By capturing the Liberalism free tech, I’ll be able to take Chemistry for a big upgrade in both land and naval units.

Banking is sometimes researched (if Financial leader or if I have a profitable shrine) while building will also target getting the necessary Universities built for construction of Oxford. I’ll also probably want to get Economics at some stage (first for the Great Merchant).

At this stage I now have several options which will depend largely on your situation at the time. There are lots of new civics within reach by going for Democracy while production can be massively boosted going down the industrial route to Steam Power. New units become available through any of the three branches (Knights to Cavalry with Mil Trade, Riflemen and Infantry on route to Assembly Line, Cannon and Machine gun through Railroad). There is also the great scientific route through Scientific Reason although some of the techs here have other pre-reqs

Hopefully, by this stage you have the luxury of being able to pick and choose where you go here. By now the game should be won.

[joncnunn]

My mid game is centered around turning my empire into an economic powerhouse.

[Ijuin]

I generally take over my whole continent somewhere in the Maceman -> Rifleman era and then turtle unless I am going for a Conquest/Domination victory.

[Vynd]

There are three questions that taken together have a big influence on what I research in the mid-game.

What kind of military units do I want?

If you make it a priority you can get to Chemistry for Grenadiers extremely quickly, especially if you concentrated on the bottom path of research. A quick trip to Military Tradition for Cavalry is also a possibility. Either choice can set you up well for fighting wars against enemies still relying on Longbows and Musketmen.

Rifling is probably not the best choice if you want to be aggressive in the mid-game, since it takes the most time to research. If you're going to be more passive though then it can be the best choice, since it moves you along the most direct path towards Spaceships and/or Infantry.

Can I get Liberalism first and do I care?

Liberalism and its civics are always nice. And if you're playing for a cultural victory getting Liberalism as early as possible is essential, even if you can't get there first.

If you can get there first then you can usually get Nationalism or Printing Press as a free tech well before anyone else has them. Nationalism for free makes really early Cavalry a possibility. Printing Press gives a nice eceonomic boost.

How important is Music to me?

Music is another key tech for cultural victories. The Free Artist for getting there first is nice. The cathedral buildings are even more important.

Depending on your plans Music can also be very good for warmongers. It's a pre-req to Military Tradition, and thus Cavalry. Also, Great Artists can come in handy in securing newly captured cities.

On the other end of the spectrum, if you're going for a spaceship victory you can pretty much ignore Music.

[Dominae]

I try to research what the AIs are neglecting in order to further abuse the Alphabet.

I often go for Liberalism if I'm reasonably confident I will get it first, and I usually pick Nationalism as my free tech. Once Taj Mahal completes I reassess to determine if I should start conquering again sooner or later. Biology is a top priority if I'm going peaceful, otherwise it's Military Tradition (or, if I'm way behind, Assembly Line).

The tech tree is very open-ended at this stage of the game, I have tried many many differents paths and I still feel like I have no idea what I'm doing.

I would be surprised if there were any hard and fast rules in answer to this question, but if so I would like to hear them!

[Azuarc]

[SIZE=1]The tech tree is very open-ended at this stage of the game, I have tried many many differents paths and I'm still feel like I have no idea what I'm doing.

I would be surprised if there were any hard and fast rules in answer to this question, but if so I would like to hear them!

Glad I'm not the only one. Oftentimes I sit there thinking if I want to avoid Scientific Method or run through it for the goodies that ensue, beeline for Marines (or at least Infantry,) head for Combustion and oil, etc. And there's decisions to be made to that effect both before and after that point. (Earlier: Liberalism or Printing Press once you get Paper, or go to Chemistry or up to Nat/Demo? Later: Mass Media for culture/UN, Plastics for the dam, Rocketry for choppers and Apollo, or push deeper for Mech Inf and +3 health in your cities?)

At every stage, the tech tree has 3 or sometimes 4 "paths." I suppose knowing which you want to take is a big part of knowing the game, but in earlier Civs, you could simply know what works for you. Now you have to figure out which ones you want to work up, AND decide if it's worth the research cost to surge down that route or if it's better to waffle and cherrypick the cheap stuff. And ultimately you need everything, but if you neglect any one of them too long, it can really hurt you. (For instance, see how long you can go without researching Bronze Working.) But at the same time, you want to get to that glittering prize down the road -- the CS sling is a perfect example of that.

It's good that I'm having this quandary. I don't want the game to be *too* simple. But sometimes I wonder if I'm going to really get a handhold on what I'm doing or if I'm just aimlessly picking techs based entirely on whim.

[uberfish]

Yeah, the tech tree is wonderfully complex, I don't think I ever take the exact same route twice but there are a few general principles that can help.

1) Acquiring some solution for happiness so your cities can grow bigger and more productive is a priority in the classical age. You will want at least one, maybe all of drama, monarchy or calendar.

2) If you're planning on further horizontal expansion in this period whether by settlers or conquest, you probably want to get CoL and/or currency to fund it.

3) Play to your strengths. Your tech decisions should be strongly influenced by civ traits and what resources you have available. A philosophical civ with marble, for example, should always at least consider early Literature.

there are more, of course, I'll post some later.

[uberfish]

4) Depth first research with the intention of tech trading works better with: Contact with many AI, good diplomatic relations, high difficulty level

5) If a tech doesn't enable a wonder you're competing for, and isn't giving a new military unit away to someone you expect to be at war with soon, don't be afraid to trade it.

[uberfish]

6) If you're planning to rely on a window of superior tech to attack especially on high levels, just getting there first isn't good enough. You need to have some means of production (heroic epic, forges, drafting, upgrades) to be able to get a sufficient number of advanced troops in the field quickly before your target can catch up. Good examples of this are the CR macemen -> grenadier upgrade strategy, and the Riflemen draft.

7) A whole second tier of economic techs opens up post-liberalism. This time what you go for should be influenced by your choice of improvements early game. A mainly-cottage empire will want democracy, one with a lot of farms biology. If you had mostly flat lands but left a lot of forests around and are planning to use them for production, this scenario favours getting Replaceable Parts + Railroad early over Assembly Line.