What Ever happenned to....

[sparkyal]

Just a couple of thoughts on some things that would be nice to see and to hear what you all think. What ever happened to....

1) Spies that can steal tech or blow something up in the city (not just under construction)? Stealing tech is one of the major purposes of even having spies.

2) Spies that can sneak in nukes )) Ok, maybe this one was unrealistic in CIV II, but I really liked it

3) Cruise missiles and nuclear subs?

4) Leonardo's Workshop? This was a great wonder to combat the cost of upgrading.

5) Knowing where wonders have been built. The Space Elevator Located in Persia isn't as specific as you migtht think

6) Status of everyone in the space race. I just lost a game because there were two other civs that were also in the space race and I only knew how close the one was, then all the sudden the other built the rest very quickly and won.

7) Why cannot great engineers speed up the Internet and space stuff, but they can speed up other wonders?

that's all for now. Just wondering what you guys think.

sparky

[iapetus556]

Its just cosmetic, but I really miss the more serious, "diplomatic" language from Civ2.

Having Alexander the Great suggest that a joint war would be "Way cool" just doesn't seem right to me.

(And the Civ2 dialogue could still be very amusing, although possibly unintentionally: "I bring a message from he who makes mortals tremble: High Priest Mahatama Ghandi of the Indians!")


Oh, and howitzers

[Tattila the Hun]

I miss "Our words are backed with NUCULAR WEAPONS!"

Spies committing nuclear terrorism isn't very PC, neither are fanatics from CIV2...

I'd like to see great scientists be able to speed up space race.

[Son of David]

'6) Status of everyone in the space race. I just lost a game because there were two other civs that were also in the space race and I only knew how close the one was, then all the sudden the other built the rest very quickly and won.'



YEEEEES!

The one single GLARING thing that is missing is detailed statistics (demographics, victory conditions, spaceship parts constructed) for EACH civilization. Rival average/rival best/rival worst is helpful but having those stats for EACH civ would be a hundred times better.

[Adm.Naismith]

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
Spies committing nuclear terrorism isn't very PC, neither are fanatics from CIV2...

Well, nuclear terrorism seems appropriate in a (fictional) game, until your country doesn't suffer a real attack, but IMHO removing it from tha game is only marketing...

Do you remember after 9/11 when Microsoft rushed to remove from Fligh Simulator the ability to crash into a building?

Anyone really think it's an appropriate "counter-terrorism" move?

IMHO fact is that if Civ try to simulate conventional wars (and WWI & II have been bloody enough, BTW), it should allow to simulate "non conventional war" as bio or nuclear attack.

[Son of David]

The game is prejudiced against nuclear weapons as it is - SDI, UN resolutions, global warming, shelters, Manhattan giving all civs the option to build, etc.

Having the ability to stealthily sneak a nuke into an AI civ's city, circumventing all these defences, UN resolution etc, therefore would seem to be against the spirit of what Firaxis wanted the end game to be like. I.e., a world where nuclear threats are easily disposed of.

[sparkyal]

Hmm, I guess they would like my other idea of having a way to build nukes in violation of UN resolutions (he-he).

Detailed stats on the space race is also a pretty serious one for me too. As is the ability of spies to steal technology. Or, how about when you took over a city to could gain a tech? Granted, that really gives us warmongers a step up, so how about a percent change of finding a new tech?

sparky

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by sparkyal
Hmm, I guess they would like my other idea of having a way to build nukes in violation of UN resolutions (he-he).

But this never happens in real life...

Oh, wait...

[Solver]

I daresay that spies not stealing technology and blowing nukes is part of why Civ4 is great. Civ4 spies don't break the game. Spies that can steal technology WILL be unbalanced.

Same for engineers who don't rush spaceships... it wouldn't be balanced, it would ruin the endgame. It just doesn't work. There's a whole bunch of stuff that sounds nice when suggested, but in reality can't work well with the gameplay we want to have.

[therover]

I really miss Leonardo's Workshop, it was one of my favorite wonders. I wonder why they left it out? It seems like an oversight to me, since there is nothing that takes its place.

I remember games of Civ II where the building of spaceships was like a horse race. You had to balance building the biggest (and therefore getting the most points) ship against getting yours off before it was too late. Without knowing what the othere civs are up to, there is none of that drama anymore.
Also, remember that you could sack their capital and force their ship to be recalled. It added a whole new level of strategy.
I just don't use the space race option anymore.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by landrover
I remember games of Civ II where the building of spaceships was like a horse race. You had to balance building the biggest (and therefore getting the most points) ship against getting yours off before it was too late. Without knowing what the othere civs are up to, there is none of that drama anymore.
Also, remember that you could sack their capital and force their ship to be recalled. It added a whole new level of strategy.
I just don't use the space race option anymore.

This is a good point. There's so much less strategic choice in Civ4's space race. Delaying a launch so that you could add more power so you're ship reached sooner than an enemy's that had launched earlier was fun.

But, I only play conquest or domination these days, because...

Space race is for hippies

[Smellycowsquid]

Originally posted by LordShiva




But, I only play conquest or domination these days

Space race is for hippies

Again with the hippies...

[conmcb25]

Leonardo's was a great wonder but somewhat unbalancing.

Thats probably why you do not see it any longer.......

[Smellycowsquid]

Originally posted by LordShiva


But this never happens in real life...

Oh, wait...

[CarnalCanaan]

Leonardo's Workshop was replaced by Leonardo da Vinci, the Great Person.

But until Warlords comes out, Sun Tzu is STILL absent from Civ4. Egregious.