Which UU is the best???

[Yosho]

Originally posted by Rancidlunchmeat
Creative is fun, because it allows you to completely forget about mysticism for a long time because you don't need to build oblisiks.

The problem is that it is only good for allowing you to delay mysticism and save you from building obslisks.

I don't really even build obslisks for culture much. Either I grab an early religion, in which case you don't really need them as the religion gives you culture, or I avoid the religious tech path completly until at least after alphabet, and then I get libraries fairly early.

[Rancidlunchmeat]

Originally posted by Yosho



I don't really even build obslisks for culture much. Either I grab an early religion, in which case you don't really need them as the religion gives you culture, or I avoid the religious tech path completly until at least after alphabet, and then I get libraries fairly early.

Good points that make CRE an even less attractive trait.

[Arrian]

Two things:

I rarely use obelisks, and I never ignore Mysticism for long (I'm addicted to the CS slingshot, and you need myst-med-priest to get to the oracle).

I typically get culture from religion and libraries. That said, I have built obelisks when battling over a resource tile (especially if facing a CRE opponent).

-Arrian

[padillah]

Don't forget the theatres and colleseums.

So when you normally build a theatre you get 3 cpt for 50h. With CRE you get 5cpt for 25h.

Which also means you can get it done earlier and start racking up GA points. Now you've got a GA worth 12cpt 20 turns before some AGR civ.

It can be worth it.

Tom P.

[Arrian]

Theatres tend to come late in my games. Once I do get around to trading for drama, though, I certainly build them. Conquered towns' first build will be a theatre.

I almost never build Colosseums.

-Arrian

[Azuarc]

The problem is that it is only good for allowing you to delay mysticism and save you from building obslisks.

People build obelisks? I have -never- built an obelisk. Ever.

Essentially, creative is a trait that is completely worthless after a hundred years or so. All it does is allow you quicker access to resources in the very beginning of the game, but you're still going to have to spend the time to 1) research the appropriate tech to take advantage of the resource 2) build a worker, build the improvement, connect the resource.

During that time you very well could have built an obslisk and freed up that extra 'trait spot' for something like.. expansive or financial or aggressive that will provide benefits for the entire game.

So my alternative is to research the tech anyway, build an obelisk, and THEN build my worker while waiting the 10 turns for the culture radius to expand?

Besides, culture affects more than you realize, and it's the earliest jumpstart on culture in each new city that matters. How many times have you gotten Astronomy, gone off with a new city on a strange shore, and had zero culture in it for ages? If you don't gun right for that Theater or bring a missionary with you, it will be quite some time before you expand.

Additionally, it gives defense bonus to your cities. I hit the 30% and 50% levels long before my non-creative brethren. You can argue I should never let anyone in my borders, but, well, stuff happens. Especially early in the game when I'm still focused on exploring.

I make no argument that some traits are better early in the game while others help more later on. Industrious's advantage is largely limited to great wonder races, which happen most in the early part of the game. Expansive's 3 health isn't too meaningful until you start getting cities big enough to care. Aggressive, arguably, becomes somewhat obsolete once you stop using gunpowder units extensively. This is a gross oversimplification, but certainly less gross than "creative is worthless after 100 years."

This is a "Best UU" thread, not a "Best Trait" thread

Agreed, there is a best leader thread floating around that gets into this stuff and usually throws in the UU for good measure. I specifically said when I first responded, "that's a subject for another thread." So if you really want to argue about creative, go make one! =p

[Yosho]

Originally posted by Arrian
Two things:

I rarely use obelisks, and I never ignore Mysticism for long (I'm addicted to the CS slingshot, and you need myst-med-priest to get to the oracle).

I usually either get an early religion and the oracle, or don't go for either one. The oracle is best when you also want a great prophet for a shrine anyway, imho.