combat help

[mannyrat]

Apologies if this is covered somewhere already (and if it is please point me to it!)

Just got civ 4, and suffering combat confusion (bear in mind, I'm used to playing civ 3). What is strength? Is it equivalent to hit points, or is it strength of attack? Can't see any separate values for attack or defence - how does this work? Is combat strength equal for attack and defence? Argh!

many thanks.

[Smellycowsquid]

Well, I looked in the manual, found nothing which helped me answer your question, so I'll try my best.

I think of them as both, while when you attack or defend, you sometimes lose strength, so in this way it is like HPs.

But, whatever your strength, that is what is moddified by promotions, and (I think) this is the number of attack (however the Computer does the odds), so in that way it is like Strength of Attack.

Well, I tried my best, maybe some more veteran people could help you out...

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

My understanding is that the number (e.g. 40 for Battleship) represents attack strength, defense strength, and hit points.

So, a unit with 10 strength isn't twice as powerful as a 5 strength unit. It's closer to 4 times as powerful, since it has double the hp.

Yeah, um... maybe I'll wait for someone more veteran, too.

[Nugog]

Unit strength is a combination of attack, defense and hit points.

We will need to await a response from a veteran (or a statistician) for the complete ratios, as it gets very confusing as different units get bonuses against each other, without even mentioning promotions.

A good way to get a feel for it is to hold right click over opposing units as this will display the combat odds and the contributing factors (terrain, promotions, natural unit abilities etc).

Spending some time doing this with worldbuilder should help.

[Smellycowsquid]

Originally posted by nugog


A good way to get a feel for it is to hold right click over opposing units as this will display the combat odds and the contributing factors (terrain, promotions, natural unit abilities etc).

*Sigh* Whenever I do that, My unit attacks... *Sigh*

[Nugog]

Originally posted by Smellycowsquid


*Sigh* Whenever I do that, My unit attacks... *Sigh*

Really, really annoying when that happens, or you try and move the cursor back over the unit, and they retreat, leaving your only iron mine unprotected

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Six Million Dollar Man
My understanding is that the number (e.g. 40 for Battleship) represents attack strength, defense strength, and hit points.

So, a unit with 10 strength isn't twice as powerful as a 5 strength unit. It's closer to 4 times as powerful, since it has double the hp.

Yeah, um... maybe I'll wait for someone more veteran, too.

This is sort of right, I think, but it should be noted that a 10-strength unit that's been weakened to strength 5 still attacks/defends with a strength of 10.

Originally posted by smellycow-Sid
*Sigh* Whenever I do that, My unit attacks... *Sigh*

Use the "right-click menu" option or whatever it's called - the default wannabe-RTS-style is for hippies

[axisworks]

Strength is, simply, the "health" of your unit, with promotions, entrenchment bonuses, and tile-specific defenses added on. Some promotions (as well as entrenchment bonuses and tile-specific defenses) don't help at all as far as attacking, and some don't help at all defending, so choose wisely which units you use for either situation. As far as I can tell, unit experience (minus it's effect on the number of promotions you've been allowed to give) in itself has no effect on strength.

All this aside, there apparently is definitely a random variable in the game where your unit may win or lose a fight, regardless of whether your unit has more strength or not. I've lost countless units that were 5, 10 or even 50% higher in strength than their opponent because of this random variable. The best plan is to always have a back-up unit in case this happens.

[Smellycowsquid]

Originally posted by LordShiva


hippies

Again with the hippies, eh?

[NFIH]

Originally posted by LordShiva


This is sort of right, I think, but it should be noted that a 10-strength unit that's been weakened to strength 5 still attacks/defends with a strength of 10.

This makes no sense at all. Can you explain?

[Nugog]

Originally posted by LordShiva
This is sort of right, I think, but it should be noted that a 10-strength unit that's been weakened to strength 5 still attacks/defends with a strength of 10.

I thought that after 1.61 it was the average of current strength and full strength.

So using the above example the actual strength attack strength would be 7.5

[Chaos Theory]

As I understand it:

All healthy units have 100 hit points.
A healthy unit's strength is both attack and defense.
An injured unit's attack and defense equal the average of its displayed strength (strength * health) and its healthy strength (since 1.61).
In combat, the chance a unit will win one round equals its attack/defense divided by the sum of both units' attack/defense.
If a unit wins a round, it inflicts a base damage of 20 hit points, modified up if it is stronger than the other unit, or down if it is weaker, though I don't know the exact formula. The result is that a healthy strength 11 unit takes 5 hits to kill a strength 10 unit, but the strength 10 unit takes 6 hits to kill the strength 11 unit, making the combat as a whole more skewed than the strengths alone would suggest.

[mannyrat]

Thanks for the help, guys. I think part of the problem for me (not just with combat) is that civ 4 is just close enough to civ 3 to be confusing. Really haven't got the hang of it yet, though the diplomacy is much more interesting. Overall, civ 4 seems much less linear. Dare I ask - what is 'first strike'? How does that affect combat?

[Smellycowsquid]

Gives a "First Strike chance" against the opponet, unless the opponet also has first strike, again, this how I think it works...

Anyone else know for sure?

[Ijuin]

A First Strike is a "free" combat round--the game calculates a combat round, but the unit with the First Strike does not lose hit points if it loses the round. A "First Strike Chance" is a 50% (I think) probability of being awarded a First Strike in each battle.