Improving my Great Person rate

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Okay... after my first game, I moved up a couple of levels (to Warlord... yeah, I know, but I'm new ). I also moved up to a huge map from a standard one, (both archipeligo).

One thing I've noticed is that the AIs are popping out Great People a lot faster than before. In terms of my score relative to the AIs, I'm doing nearly as well as I did at Settler, but I've only produced 2 GP despite having a commanding lead in all demographics. Meanwhile, the 10 AIs have produced 18 GPs among them!

I've been building Great Wonders at a steady clip - and have most of the early ones. I'm well in front in Science and civ size. So what am I doing wrong?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Jaybe]

No, it's what you are doing RIGHT!
The AI will do almost anything to put specialists online: Sacrifice production, sacrifice city growth, sacrifice income.

They are so 'stupid' as to working the land that they use specialists as a crutch.
If you have a city or two that aren't doing 'anything', up their food supply and assign some extra specialists. Put your National Epic wonder into a decent growth city and specialize in specialists there (of the type that buildings are multiplying the best). Where your Globe Theatre is, grow it quickly so you will get free specialists there once it surpasses 20 pop.

[rjmatsleepers]

I suspect that managing the production and use of GP is one of the keys to a good strategy. And your strategy will depend on the type of win you are aiming for.

However, IMO an early Academy is a huge advantage so it is a good idea to assign 2 scientists as soon as you've built your library (in your capital). I also think it is good to avoid your capital having too many wonders that produce points other than Great Scientist, although this may be affected by practical considerations.

This assumes you are running Bureaucracy (and if not, why not?) Also, I recommend early Pacifism to increase your GP production rate.

There is a lot to be said for a GP farm, provided it can match the rate at which your capital is producing Great Scientists. Also keep an eye on how your governors are assigning specialists. Small numbers of GP points spread thinly across your empire aren't very useful for Great People. The specialists themselves may be good, but in my experience there are some odd decisions - assigning an engineer when more hammers would be available from working a mine for example.

RJM

[fed1943]

You are guessing right, rjm; GP is one of the keys to an excellent strategy (I know because I lack it and feel the price).
Until emperor, you can go without.
There is one guy, Aeson, who posted about. Read. Then read again. If you feel lucky try to induce him to post more.
Best regards,

[Steve2000]

Re: Improving my Great Person rate

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
but I've only produced 2 GP despite having a commanding lead in all demographics. Meanwhile, the 10 AIs have produced 18 GPs among them!

Sounds like you are out producing the AIs in GPs. The AIs are only averaging 1.8 GP each, while you have 2.

[Arrian]

Try running Pacifism (+100% GP rate in cities w/state religion). Try building the Parthenon (+50% GP rate in all cities). Play a Philosophical civ (+100% GP rate).

Other than that, you can simply prioritize specialists some more. In a general sense, this means more farms so you can afford to take a citizen off the land and turn him into a priest or whatever.

I, on the other hand, am still working on getting myself to build more cottages (I tend to go heavy on farms/mines).

-Arrian

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Thanks for the tips... I've made the government changes and incorporated some of the other ideas where possible. Things are improving.

And, yup, I have two for their 1.8 average... but my score is more than double that of the #1 AI. So I feel I should have more GPs. Cottages are the one thing I seem to do well, so far.

[Blake]

Play Alexander. Making the most of the philo trait is pretty important for him, and philo doesn't get in the way of aggressive and vice-verca. He's a good leader to learn the ways of GP.

[Yosho]

Personally, in the early game, I will not often be willing to sac production and growth to make great people. If I found a religion, I'll probably also build the oracle and let it make me a great prophet. Then I'll make the library of Alexander and let it make me a few scientists. That's really all the great people I need for the early game.

[trev]

There is a significant cost in growth, commerce or hammers required to produce GP's early in the game. In general it is not worth the cost. However the civic Mercantilism and the wonder Statute of Liberty both give free specialists and should be utilised especially if you are a philosophical civ. This civic and the wonder are particularly advantageous for empires with large numbers of cities because they will result in regular GP's being generated for a lengthy period of time. For example on standard speed, A GP can be generated every 6 turns with a philospical civ, and pacifist civic with the wonder and trait for a period of time equal to your number of cities x 6. So for a large empire of 20 cities, this will be 20 GP's spread out over about 120 turns. This would be a massive boost to a civ that is already doing fairly well. After a brief interlude the GP avalanche will return at approximately double the interval, once all cities have generated the GP. So the way to go with GP's is not to focus on GP factories, but instead the Mercantilism civic, Statute of Liberty, and Pacifist civic and philosophical trait. Combining the Representation civic with the Mercantilism increases substantially the value of the free specialists and should be utilised in this approach

[fed1943]

Thank you, Blake.

I will invite Alexander.

Best regards,

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by fed1943
Thank you, Blake.

I will invite Alexander.

Best regards,

Or you could try Elizabeth, who has philosophical and financial - a pretty effective combination!

RJM

[couerdelion]

There is a common misconception that the +100% GPP rate from the Philosophical trait and the +100% GPP rate from running Pacifism are a very strong combination (equally that the Parthenon should be a target wonder if you are Philosophical). In fact, running Pacifism or building the Parthenon works better for a non-Philosophical civilisation. Moving from 1xGPP to 2xGPP gives you GPs 100% faster while moving from 2xGPP to 3xGPP only gives you the GPs 50% faster.

I’m fairly certain I’m in a small minority here so you may have to make a big leap of faith to believe me.

To see how GPs can be effective, choose any Philosophical civilisation and then find yourself a food rich site for a GP farm which will support 4+ specialists. Make sure you also build a few wonders. When your GPs are appearing every ten turns then you’ll understand how useful they can be.

[PaganPaulwhisky]

In fact, running Pacifism or building the Parthenon works better for a non-Philosophical civilisation. Moving from 1xGPP to 2xGPP gives you GPs 100% faster while moving from 2xGPP to 3xGPP only gives you the GPs 50% faster.

I used to really disagree with the above, but after concentrating more on the philo trait, I am now inclined to agree. I now find myself rarely ever switching to pacifism if I have a philo civ, but for non-philo civs I often burn a scientist to sling to philosophy just so I can run pacifism to crank out GP as early as possible.

Saladin is my favorite leader for a GP centric game (although Mao and Alexander are great too, I just jump to military conquest faster with these leaders). If stone happens to fall near you, then the game is almost in the bag (monarch and below). Once the pyramids are up, you can get a ridiculous tech lead with Saladin. This coupled with an early religion shrine and mass spread leads to some truly impressive starts.

My capital is usually the main GP producer for awhile. One strategy of mine is to chop in stonhenge and oracle very early in the capital to crank some fast prophets (I usually just take Metal casting with the oracle). Once I get literature, If I have another high food city I will build the GL and national epic here. This way I can get scientists with a very high probability for the next 1000 years or so.

[Arrian]

Moving from 1xGPP to 2xGPP gives you GPs 100% faster while moving from 2xGPP to 3xGPP only gives you the GPs 50% faster

Quite true. But it will still increase your overall GP rate. It's just that, as a PHI civ, your base GP rate is higher.

I suppose the same could be said with respect to the IND trait + Org. Rel. in the context of building wonders. That doesn't mean I won't use Org. Rel. as an IND civ.

-Arrian