Forts

[Foxhawk]

I don't hear much talk around here about forts. Does anyone build them and use them with any efficacy?

[MadDjinn]

they don't do any good unless you have them in your cultural area, and have nothing better to do with that plot. not to mention they are easy to go around unless you've got the fort in a tight pass.

forts do need to be able to block free passage to each of its adjoining squares.. .it would possibly make them a bit more useful again.

[rah]

Yes, if forts would give you ZOC they might be worth something. I have yet to build one in a game.
Does it destroy other improvements?

[Jaybe]

Does it destroy other improvements?

Well, it warns you that it will when you go to build it.

[axisworks]

I build them rarely, as they generally are worthless unless there's a one-tile pass somewhere that isn't in a city's radius and can't be built on with something else. I've actually used forts twice, once to good effect and once in desperation.

[Ming]

I used a fort only once... and that was because of a mountain range where there was only one square through it without going a long way around it... it was useful.

But I agree with Rah... if they gave it ZOC, then it might be worth more, but right now, people just go around it.

[Smellycowsquid]

I build designs sometimes with them, but never use them for their use.

[Foxhawk]

That's the sense I get as well. I'd be interesting in seeing forts changed to fortifcations, and be placable over other improvements.

[Blake]

I only use them as a form of busy-idle for workers.

[johnmcd]

If they could be built outside your borders it would be good. As an early barbarian helper they could be great.

A friend of mine believes that an occupied fort should secure land for you too, which I quite like. You could create little pockets of land by occupation rather than by cultural control.

[drsparnum]

If the enemy moves into a fort that is held within your cultural borders, do they benefit from the fort?

[MasterDave]

I have a friend who has played lots of other wargames (both on tabletops and on the computer) who has recently been challenging me in multiplayer Civ4. One one occasion he made a great effort to build defensive forts in some jungles along his borders, not realizing that he was losing +25% of his defensive bonus in the process (building the fort cleared the jungle in the tile). I soon plowed his stacks in these forts, indelibly teaching him the error of his ways.

Forts as they are now are uselelss in almost all scenarios. They need to either not replace existing improvements (or forestation), offer a bigger defensive bonus, or be buildable outside of cultural boundaries to be at all useful.

[Foxhawk]

[SIZE=1]

Forts as they are now are uselelss in almost all scenarios. They need to either not replace existing improvements (or forestation), offer a bigger defensive bonus, or be buildable outside of cultural boundaries to be at all useful.

100% supported

[Thoth]

Forts were slightly altered in the 1.61 patch, they no longer destroy forest/jungle. I still haven't found them to be very useful.

[MadDjinn]

so...

it appears there may also be an issue when deciding between forts and fortifications, which can be 2 different things.

fortifications should not remove tile improvements (maybe even have -1 (something being developed by the tile improvement))
they may even be limited to some small number of troops benefiting from them (say 5)
have 1/4 of the %defence bonus of the fort.
fortifications can be built anywhere on land (even in other areas... forward bases anyone?)

forts should remove tile improvements (they're big)
should allow a ZOC around them of 1 tile (maybe make it a 'cultural' boundry to make that happen - so it looks like a city with no cultural growth)
unlimited troop residence.
some high amount of defence % bonus. (or for ease of coding... could be a 'city' that can build walls/castle only)
for modern times, then the defense bonus drops (say post gunpowder as now exists, but not fully dropped, maybe 50% less defense)
forts built anywhere, except within other cultural borders. fort ZOC cannot be removed by cultural expansion. possible exception is when a non-open borders cultural border fully envelops the forts ZOC. then fort defenders could be forced out due to no food...

for building:

fortifications first, then a second improvement to add a fort.

fort could be moved to a higher tech as well.