Chopping in v1.61

[Blake]

The main people effected by chopping would be those who used chopping as a crutch - basically their one wonder strategy. Many players experimented with other strategies, which might not have been quite as effective, but are effective enough. Such players will not suffer from the chopping nerf.

However I believe that 1.61 has some AI enhancements which makes it harder.

[Shaka II]

It will make chopping in the Pyramids harder. Probably would have to build them in part now. Presently, I only build them if I have stone or the industrious trait. The Great Library shouldn't be affected much, since Mathematics can be traded for Alphabet by then.

It could make for some interesting changes like beelining for Mathematics, but I suspect the Pyramids would be built by then.

[SandMonkey]

sorry for the off-topic post....

Originally posted by Mr Justice
well what can i say.

i still play cs 1.6 (if that means anything here )

that's because cs 1.6 ROCKS! That's still my go-to online shooter when i need to let off some steam (no pun intended)

[joncnunn]

The only difference in my play was that I didn't chop any forests until aquiring Math; I've never had to reserach that tech since the AI valued it so highly even before this patch.

The HR is now Low upkeep & Representation is now Med upkeep (and more importantly only 2 Happiness) makes the Pryaimds less needed. (With HR, happiness isn't an issue; just build another unit to maintain order.)

[Generaldoktor]

Originally posted by Blake
The main people effected by chopping would be those who used chopping as a crutch - basically their one wonder strategy. Many players experimented with other strategies, which might not have been quite as effective, but are effective enough. Such players will not suffer from the chopping nerf.

However I believe that 1.61 has some AI enhancements which makes it harder.

Er, okay, yeah, probably true. Working on some new crutch, er strategy, but it's taking time. There are, as you and others say, other changes in v.161 that cumulatively affect play besides, but including, chop. I guess we are better men (and women) if we learn to win a more complex game.

[joncnunn]

Personally, I think that if someone can't win the game without a favorite ancient era wonder, their doing something wrong, and need to explore alternatives.

On the no need to ever research Map thing I wrote above; that is because I've been mostly playing on Flat Maps & Pangenas.

Along with one Old Contents (now Fractal) that was semi-Pangena [all but 1 AI civ on the starting landmaps.]

I'm now playing a 3 contientant map [3-2-2] and not the 3 and so I may evenually have to reserach Math myself because the AI doesn't want to let go of a tech they have an apprenent monopoly off. (When I virtually fully explored the landmass and only made contact with 1 player, I pulled up world view to ensure the map was not a 5-2.)

[smak]

You will no longer be able to use a single chop (90 hammers) to make a single praetorian (also handily 90 hammers).

UNLESS you are like me, and playing on the direct to drive version.

I guess they were full of it when they said it was the full game. They did patch one to direct/drive but this new one may be delayed.

In any case, theres 2 things alot of you arent thinking about.

#1. You arent the only one who gets less hammers per chop now. AI's never really seemed to chop purposefully to make a wonder in the first place. (that i am aware of).

#2. If you used chops to rush wonders or some key unit ect, you can do the same still. Just takes more chops. ( and any chopoholic knows to prechop all or most of the trees so they can all be cleared in 1 or a few turns instead of 8+9+9+9+9. Only takes 1+1+1+1+1. Or after patch, 10 1's now.

[Generaldoktor]

Actually Smak, prechops may not be as common as you think. Do you really have workers laying around that you can assign the "busy work" of prechop in case you need trees someday, because they have nothing else to do??

Regardless of that, I got what I wanted to know, (without laboriously figuring it myself.) You seem to be saying five woods squares pre-patch = 10 woods squares now, so pre-Math chop is half as effective as it used to be.

Joncnunn (& Mr. Justice) ; I hope you get from Smak's first comment that us chop enthusiasts and there are many ,
are not just chopping wonders (or "early" wonders) but a lot of other stuff we need fast, like early workers and settlers, or in Smak's example, Praetorians.

There's a lot of ways to win. In my current game I seem destined to not have a lot of wonders; I've won that way before. If you're playing Napoleon or Gandhi though on a map full of trees. (I like Highlands personally, the barbs spawn everywhere and totally spook the AI's; I've learned how to deal with them, ) I always felt, "chop away!"

Smak, Re: #2 : What Mr. Justice said about saving trees makes sense and I played a lot of my first games that way and am considering, post-patch, playing that way again. If I'm going to chop a woods square, I want to get maximum value for it. This suggests eliminating early game (pre-Math) chops, though I'm having some considerable problems weaning myself off it and am curious how some (incl. Mr. Justice) were beating their barbs and foes to the important things and still not.

[Blake]

If you feel you need to chop in the early game, then chop. It's fairly balanced and will still give you good turn advantage and needed things like axemen vs barbs.
The main difference is... now if you don't need to chop, you don't chop.

[Mr Justice]

Generaldoktor: i dont use chops as much as probably most,
but there are otherways to aquire "free stuff", what must be said tho is i mainly play with inca, so with the quecha unit i am in strong position in the real early game.
most games i only build 1 worker out of say my 1st ten builds (most of which end up being quecha). i always try steal an AIs workers, there is almost no penalty for a real early war, so i park a unit beside an AI, or circle his lands and wait , i'll also try take out nearest civ altogether within the ancient age, thus ive also no need to get a real early settler out. (actually i tend to leave out building settler until after slingshot).

so i have less to build than perhaps yourself, hence i can get away with not chopping.

in other games where i havent went the slingshot route, i dont generally build any ancient wonders and i concentrate much more on the military aspect and i try stay in constant warfare, its a very productive use of those early sheilds becuase u get payback from classical period onwards for the rest of game. if u can get another city (pref from AI) then pop rushing is more effective, so long as its not the capital, (thats why i consider getting no payback on those early cities in ancient age, i pop rush em alot then.