Nerfed chop and the slingshot

[cal_01]

So, I was thinking of how to do the CS slingshot the other day now that 1.61 nerfed the chop until Mathematics.

Currently, I'm thinking that going Stonehedge for the GP and popping for Civil Service may be a good way to go, but you can just as easily go for the Oracle in that sense.

Basically, is there any way to make the slingshot faster now that it's been delayed by several turns?

[fed1943]

When doing a CS slingshot, I never chop. The Oracle finishes 3-6 turns after research CoL.
Research is the problem,I think.
But I never build the Oracle in the capital.
Best regards,

[uberfish]

I often do my slingshots without BW at all since researching BW slows you down too.

If your production isn't amazing, skip the library until later and you should have time to build the oracle while waiting for writing and CoL to complete.

[Aginor]

One thing worth checking out as well is the alternate slingshot (Philosophical civ, start on the Oracle earlier, use your Prophet for CS). If you have a soft production start this can save you, though it unfortunately delays your Academy quite a bit (since it'll take an extra 200 GPP for your GS).

'Course, the alternate method worked better when you could chop Stonehenge easily.

[joncnunn]

I agree; if you want the Oracle or Stonehidge; resarching BW takes extra time.

The primary target was choping for Pyraimds; along with HR strengthed and Rep weakened to decrease it's desirability.

[Cadarn]

Play as Qin

Research Pottery ASAP and lay down 3 cottages, work them as much as you can as long as you have a hill+mine in the radius too for hammers. I didn't found my 2nd city until about 1800BC (Monarch/Epic) as I'd used my capital's production for an early worker and then archers.

The 2nd city didn't have copper (the 3rd city site did) but I founded it on a plains/hill with a good mix of forests, hills and riverside tiles. Yes, I had to chop the oracle in but that's why I put the city in amongst the trees!

I'd got to CoL through research alone, no GPs. Built the Oracle 2 turns later in the 600'sBC, job done.

[samspock]

I tried a CS slingshot working the way I always do. I got lucky on my start and had lots of forrests and I chopped the library, settler and oracle as normal. If anything you just need to allow a little more time for some of the builds to be done naturally. I found that a couple of chops for the library and it is about 3-4 turns from completion on it's own. Also, be more selective on what you chop. Leave the two hammer forests alone and take the one hammer ones if possible.

It does not invalidate the strategy, just makes it a little more interesting.

[couerdelion]

Has anyone managed the standard CS sling at Emperor level with the patch yet

[Aginor]

Yup.

'Course, all it took was a capital with 3 flood plains, Corn, Gold and a river, and founding my second city in the middle of ten or so flood plains and 3 Gold tiles ;-)

(Needless to say, THAT game was a walkover, which was a nice change of pace on Emperor.)

Seriously, I've done it several times with the patch. It's a fairly limited subset of leaders that has any talent for it, and your start has to be above average. In my experience Saladin is the strongest of the Slingshot leaders, as he will often steal Buddhism, almost certainly will get Confucianism, and can typically pop a Prophet or Scientist for Daoism. Good combination for exploiting a slingshot game diplomatically AND financially, as you can usually draw up the battle lines as you so choose, with the exception of the primary enemy that gets Hinduism, Judaism or Christianity on your continent.

I've also done it with Mao, who is usually phenomenal with Worker first slingshots, what with having Ag and Mining right out of the gate. I imagine that Asoka is quite hot at it as well, though I generally don't play as him. (Spiritual + Organized isn't a strong enough combination of traits for my taste, and don't even get me started on Gandhi.) Liz tends to struggle with it a bit unless she draws a solid coastal start.

The key, I find, is getting your research done. You can deviate from the beeline perhaps once on Emperor from a high commerce start, and only for a first order tech (ie: Ag, Mining, Wheel). You get maybe two deviations, or one second order tech, if you start with Myst. Unless you catch a REALLY hot commerce start, research is generally the limiting factor.

Also, you generally can sneak ONE Settler out there, along with the obligatory Worker. Best practice is generally to run up to Priesthood as fast as you can, throw some hammers into the Oracle to let the city grow a bit, then toss off a Settler to control some turf if you're so inclined.

[Mr Justice]

i did using this save
Here using HC .

but i had 3 silver,
1 sheep,
2 fish
2 crabs

stole worker and took enemy city as well, so didtn build worker or settler.

[Hermann the Lombard]

Just now that link isn't working.

[MasterDave]

Originally posted by couerdelion
Has anyone managed the standard CS sling at Emperor level with the patch yet

Yes, I managed it on a shuffle map that was an archipelgeo, Emperor level. There was one gold mine in my capital radius and a river with grasslands for cottages. I was playing the Incans. I got the Oracle built about two turns after learning COL. My research was lagging behind my production, so I built a library after my first settler and before the Oracle. I also used a scientist to speed things up.

It is more difficult now with chopping nerfed, now I tend to research the wheel and pottery as opposed to bronze working when trying to slingshot. The AI tends to pop out an Oracle around 1200 BC-1300 BC on Emperor in the few games I have tried since patching (I was away on business for a week).

[dsteve3]

...CS Slingshot?

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by dsteve3
...CS Slingshot?

Are you asking what the CS Slingshot is? If so read on; if not, ignore this post.

Classic CS Slingshot: Complete the Oracle just after discovering Code of Law and choose Bureaucracy as your free tech.

Prophet assisted CS Slingshot: Use a Great Prophet to learn CoL and then take Bureaucracy as your free tech from the Oracle. This requires you not to learn masonary. Prophet points can come from early wonder (eg Stonehenge) or from specialist priests.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Mr Justice]

fixed the linkage above