tech hole

[bigvic]

once you get behind in tech - is there any way to get caught up? i mean, i play on noble and around the middle ages some a$$hole ai has like 4 or 5 more tech than i do...even when i build libraries out the wazoo, max out tech, run around trading everything i get as soon as i get it...it dont matter...and there seems no way to catch up other than going mondo military and wiping out all competition...

if this is the case (no espionage, no way to steal tech) whats the point? should i just click the "no tech trading" thing? will the ai's still get way ahead?


i have been playing civ a LONG time and this was a problem with civ3 if u played at too high a level also...but at least there was espionage...here there is NOTHING.

just go back to warlord or click the no tech trade button?

[joncnunn]

Tech problems on Noble by the middle ages => insufficent cottages were founded during the Ancient & Classic ages. [The middle ages is about the time that those cottages you planted in early game start becoming towns)

[Willem]

One option is to beeline for a tech that the other civs don't have which is fairly valuable. Once you have it, you can trade it around and pick up a bunch of other techs for it. Astronomy is a good one, if you can get there first. So is Liberalism, which also gives you a free tech to help you catch up.

[Schtix]

The Oracle is also an early-on helper, giving you a free technology. The other two posts both made good points, so the only new information I could think of would be to build the Pyramids, and adopt representation. The +3 boost for each specialist adds up over time I've found.

The way I make this work is setting aside one city to get library first, then just grow enough so that I can make priest or two. Then, with representation and setting the city on research, (or commerce, if you need to bring up the % of your research) I can normally get a technology none of the other nations have, or at least catch up to an important one.

Hope this helps.

[rjmatsleepers]

In addition to the other good advice, city specialisation will help you recover when you're behind in the tech race. Bureaucracy will give your capital a big commerce boost, so concentrate your science improvements there - particularly an academy and Oxford. If your capital is on the coast, build a harbour. And maximise your commerce output by chopping down any remaining trees and building cottages.

RJM at Sleeper's

[bigvic]

cottags eh? so don't automate workers?

the old rsearch city thing eh, schtix?

[Urban Ranger]

Do the Civil Service Slingshot (see other threads in this section).

Build the Pyramids and switch to Representation early.

Found a religion (or more), build the holy shrine(s), and spread the religions. Once you have a state religion, Organized Religion is a good civic.

See if you could get a city or two of yours to specialise in commerce.

Use specialists.

Chop rush and pop rush if necessary.

Don't automate workers.

Beeline calendar and develop your happy specials.

When you build a city, try to max out the number of specials within its fat cross. I prefer to have a few great cities with the rest mediocre instead of spreading the specials around.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
And maximise your commerce output by chopping down any remaining trees and building cottages.

That is not necessarily a good idea.

For starters, a city probably doesn't have enough pop to work all the cottages in its fat cross at that stage. It is much better to maintain a good growth (at least 4 food surplus) and add cottages in stages.

[PaganPaulwhisky]

I think specialists are the best way to catch up. If you anticipate this being a problem, I would try to maximize great scientist output, and then just use them to lightbulb expensive techs like education that can give you an edge in the science race. The Gr.Lib really helps to accomplish this.

The pyramids will really help, but can often be a problem to build without stone. Otherwise get constitution ASAP and then switch to representation. I would not go crazy on the cottages, but make a nice balance of farms and cottages to ensure good GP production. Building lots of coastal cities with harbors is also a good option. The water tiles will give you lots of commerce esp. with financial trait.

I think it is even easier to just slow down the AI research by declaring war and razing (or taking) cities/pillaging cottages. The comp will usually switch off bureacracy and their research will grind to a halt. This will in turn slow others down since your rival will have less techs to trade away. This works best if you start oscillating wars with two or three tech giants.

By the way, if you want to improve your game, then I suggest you don't go back to warlord. On that level you can make a ton of mistakes and still clobber the comp. If you stick with noble you should start to see some improvement.

[Willem]

Originally posted by PaganPaulwhisky
I think specialists are the best way to catch up. If you anticipate this being a problem, I would try to maximize great scientist output, and then just use them to lightbulb expensive techs like education that can give you an edge in the science race. The Gr.Lib really helps to accomplish this.

Using this approach, The Caste System civic rocks since you can have as many Scientists as a city can support. So you'll not only be creating a lot of beakers, but also pumping out Great Scientists like crazy.

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


That is not necessarily a good idea.

For starters, a city probably doesn't have enough pop to work all the cottages in its fat cross at that stage. It is much better to maintain a good growth (at least 4 food surplus) and add cottages in stages.

True, but the OP said in the "middle ages", so it does depend a bit on your definition of when the middle ages are. Certainly add cottages in stages, but other things being equal, I want my science city working cottages. Certainly you may have to address health issues if you get rid of the forests. But if your science city is working a tile that isn't giving you a lot of commerce, chop that forest and build a cottage.

RJM at Sleeper's

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Willem


Using this approach, The Caste System civic rocks since you can have as many Scientists as a city can support. So you'll not only be creating a lot of beakers, but also pumping out Great Scientists like crazy.

You'll certainly be pumping out the GP points, but you'll get less beakers from a scientist than you would from a fully developed "cottage". In a good science city, operating at 100% science, the break even point seems to be 4 commerce - with less than that, a scientist gives you more beakers, with more than 4 commerce, working the tile gives you more beakers.

I'm not sure how to value the GP points - 30 turns to generate a great scientist who can contribute 2,000 beakers towards a new tech suggests they are worth about 66 beakers per turn. This is very good value. As the number of turns grows, and if you're not interested in the tech they will learn, they are less valuable. Also the value of GP points in your science city diminishes if you are running a GP farm elsewhere.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Willem]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
I'm not sure how to value the GP points - 30 turns to generate a great scientist who can contribute 2,000 beakers towards a new tech suggests they are worth about 66 beakers per turn. This is very good value. As the number of turns grows, and if you're not interested in the tech they will learn, they are less valuable. Also the value of GP points in your science city diminishes if you are running a GP farm elsewhere.

Even more valuable is the Academy IMO. A plus 50% increase in beaker production is going to make a big difference throughout the course of a game, far more than using that Great Scientist to gain a particular tech.

[PaganPaulwhisky]

originally posted by Willem
Even more valuable is the Academy IMO. A plus 50% increase in beaker production is going to make a big difference throughout the course of a game, far more than using that Great Scientist to gain a particular tech.

I don't know about this. Getting certain techs very early can be extremely useful and can often seal a victory (particularly steel or chemistry). I tend to go for early domination victories, in which case the value of the academy is dimished, and lightbulbing certain techs becomes a key part of my strategy. I usually use my first scientist for an academy in my capital, and the rest to discover techs.

[Willem]

Originally posted by PaganPaulwhisky


I don't know about this. Getting certain techs very early can be extremely useful and can often seal a victory (particularly steel or chemistry). I tend to go for early domination victories, in which case the value of the academy is dimished, and lightbulbing certain techs becomes a key part of my strategy. I usually use my first scientist for an academy in my capital, and the rest to discover techs.

You need to look at the total beaker value. The amount of beakers that can be applied to a tech by a GS is limited. However an Academy will keep adding it's contribution throughout the course of a game. In the long run, it's going to provide more beakers towards tech research than using the GS to rush a single tech, especially if it's built in the early game.

Of course they become less valuable in this way at the end of the game, at which point it might make sense to use the GS to apply it's beakers towards a tech.