Where did I go wrong? Am I insignifigant?

[TheRockit]

Alright... I started off in the ancient era by securing my chunk of land and founding 3 religions... I was fine in coin and production, I was fine in power and have never been to war... what's wrong with my play in this game and why am I now a seeming non-entity in the endgame here? What could I do to turn things around? Save game file attached... Thanks!

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=35297_apr7GLOWAD-1863.Civ4SavedGame

I thought everything was peachy until I started taking a good look at my neighbors... whata maroon!

[Swiss Pauli]

Well there's lots wrong there: too much forrest (that should have been chopped), poor research lines (being first to Liberalism gets a free tech, for example), culture slider at 20%, cities producing wrong things (research, an aqueduct where there's +10 health).

I recommend going back to school: read Vel's strategy thread vol 2 that's topped on this board. It sorted me out and will do the trick for you.

[cynyck]

Swiss Pauil is spot on. There is a lot wrong here. Read Vel's thread like he suggests. You apparently settled a scientist in your shrine city, but should have used it to build an academy in your leading science city (your capital). And you really cannot ignore Education as you have. You need universities to push your research.

Try not playing all the way through at first in order to get the initial strategies in line, and re-reading Vel's thread as you play over and over. Not necessarily the same map and the same leader, although that seems to work for some. Doing this will help you establish your strategies as you progressively play further into the game.

Do you have the original 4000BC file saved for this game? If so, post it; it looks like an interesting map.

[Ijuin]

A few basic pointers:

1: Don't use the culture slider AT ALL unless you are either:
A ) in a culture war with a neighbor (trying to assert cultural dominance over border lands)
B ) gearing up for the dash to a culture victory
C ) in need of the additional happiness from culture

2: Don't build health improvements unless the city needs them (if health is more than four greater than unhealth, then it doesn't need them).

3: All hill tiles should have their forests chopped and replaced with mines (and the mines replaced with windmills everywhere except for mineral resources once you get Replacable Parts which gives +1 hammers to all windmills)

4: Each city should have enough farms so that it is possible for it to maintain +4 food production. If there is not enough clear space, then chop down a forest or two to make space.

5: All clear (grassland or plains) terrain that is not going to have a farm or watermill on it should have a cottage on it--build them early so that they will grow! Your workers should never be sitting idle until you have improved everything that you can!

6: Any forests that you DO end up keeping should get lumbermills on them as soon as you can build those--this will give you +1 hammers right away, +2 hammers with later technology, and +3 hammers when you add a railroad.

7: Take advantage of your civics! The "primitive" choices that you start off with give you no benefit at all. Good choices include:

Small early empire: Heriditary Rule/Vasslage (war) or Bureaucracy (peace)/Slavery, Serfdom or Caste System/Organized Religion

Small mid/late empire: Representation (peace) or Police State (war)/Bureaucracy/Caste System or Emancipation/Mercantilism or Free Market/Free Religion

Large late empire: Representation or Universal Suffrage/Free Speech/Caste System or Emancipation/Free Market/Free Religion

8: If you want to take advantage of the +50% hammers/commerce in your capital from Bureaucracy, then you should build your capital into a science city. This means:
A ) Build all available science improvements (library, university, observatory, monasteries for all religions you have)
B ) Try to build science wonders/national wonders in your capital, especially The Great Library and Oxford University (and if your capital is on the coast, also The Great Lighthouse and The Colossus)
C ) Assign science specialists in your capital. In fact, assign as many science specialists as you can without hurting city growth, even if this means that you will have fewer priest or other specialists.
D ) As soon as you get your first Great Scientist, use him to build an Academy in your capital.

9: Take advantage of commerce and science boosting Great Wonders/National Wonders, including:
The Oracle
The Pyramids (lets you switch to Representation early--the benefit of Representation is that the +3 science each specialist produces means that all specialists double as scientists)
The Great Library
The Great Lighthouse
The Collossus
Great Shrines to all of your religions (gives you cash to let you run a higher science rate)
Oxford University
The Statue of Liberty (+1 free specialists in all cities)


10: Finally, take advantage of international trade opportunities! Try to buy technology from your rivals if you can--that will save you on having to research it, and if you can buy it for money instead of by selling them tech in exchange, then they will probably spend the money on military and infrastructure instead of on research. Also, sell them any spare luxuries and food resources you have--you can get their spare resources and maybe some cash as well. This works especially well if you get Hollywood, Broadway, and/or Rock n Roll, since these each give you seven copies of an artificial luxury that nobody else can get except from you.

[TheRockit]

I do have the original 4000bc save game file for this one... don't forget to change the name to avoid confusion!

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=35297_AutoSave_Initial_BC-4000.Civ4SavedGame

I really appreciate the advice, I think I'll try to play it again with some of the lessons under my belt. I have been meaning to 'enroll' myself in Apolyton Civ-U but have been denying my destiny there... have been playing Civ since the floppy disk days of the first release and I have never been so humbled as by Civ4... mastered all the rest all on my own. Sigh, even old dogs need new tricks it seems!

Thanks again all. Enjoy your turn at the saved game file.

[alva]

That may very well be the biggest thing to do, unlearn previous iterations of Civ that is (also one of the hardest).

[QuixotesGhost]

I'd say Diplomacy is a HUGE problem right now.

Here's what I noticed -

1. No Open Borders with anyone. You need open borders for more lucrative trade routes. Plus Open Borders improves relations.

2. You picked up the 3 early religeons (Bud, Hin, Jud) but failed to spread them enough to get your neighbors to convert. A big problem is that almost everyone but you is Confusionist so they are going on huge trading orgies leaving you out of the loop. Btw, how did you plan to spread religeon without Open Borders? That shuts out Missionaries and Trade Routes.

3. As soon as I opened the game I was able to pick up an etra ~30 gpt a turn through resource trading, and 3 extra techs from Alex by trading ours for his. Bismark will also let go of Economics for Divine Right + Gold once you get Education from Alex.



It's kinda hopeless though Mansa will have the Apollo Program built in ~10 turns. I'd say the only chance you have is either Nuking the crap outta everyone or Diplomacy (might need to switch to Confusianism).




The most important thing you need to do next game is: OPEN BORDERS, OPEN BORDERS, OPEN BORDERS. You need the foreign trade routes, if your playing the religeon game you need to send misionaries, and open borders make people like you. Plus if someone cancels them with you, you know they are about to attack.

Open Borders doesn't carry the risk it did in Civ3.

[Qwertqwert]

A peice of advise which I extreemally reccomend going by. To be a major power, you MUST be the first to reashearch both Alphabet, and Astronomy. Though your biggest mistake was playing as Isabella. And expand as much as you can, as early as you can. This game is kind of lost, but next game you can play better.

On noble, you really don't need to be a major military power early in the game. Atleast not for a map like that. (I tried putting 18 civilizations on a dual sized map, military was nessissary needless to say) In the begining keep a military about 60-70% of the top and atleast 10% above the bottom. And expand and research as much as you possibly can.

Get Alphabet as soon as you can. Alphabet is extreemally important to get early. And never trade it. It will give you a monopoly on tech trading for a long time, and will quickly push you to be the most technologolicaly advanced country very quickly and will keep you there until about half way through the industrial era.

Espically on Terra Maps, get Astronomy first, and then send the best fighters you have over to the new areas to take over already made Barbarian cities. Conquer as fast as you can and you will be able to controll almost the entire area.

There are also certian civilizations you want to always be an ally with, Mansa Musa, Askoa, Cyrus, Cathrine, Peter, Elizebeth, and if he's in a good spot, Ceaser. And some you can completly sacrifice relations with, Saladin, Alexander, Bismark and if he's in a bad spot Ceaser.

Hope some of this helps.

[Lord Chambers]

Get Alphabet as soon as you can. Alphabet is extreemally important to get early.

I think this is bad advice. I play regularly on Emperor, and find that 9 times out of 10 setting other techs as my priority is a more prudent strategy. A beeline, which I think this poster is suggesting, neglects worker techs which could make your relatively dimunitive early pop signifigantly more productive. It also hinders your ability to war (iron working, metal casting, feudalism). I would wager that if you aren't REXing through settling or through war, you're playing a weaker game than someone who is.

This said, sometimes Alphabet is right up your alley. Often times writing is an important priority, as its neccesary for Code of Laws. Alphabet is just one tech away from it, but it costs a lot. Depending on the situation, you may be able to recoop the cost, but it depends on the map and how many opponents you have contact with. In all cases, it's going to take many turns. I play on Epic, and my slider is rapidly dropping around this time, so it usually costs at least 20 turns of research.

Personally, I find that getting alphabet early as unimportant. Expanding, that's important.

[Nacht]

Originally posted by Ijuin
6: Any forests that you DO end up keeping should get lumbermills on them as soon as you can build those--this will give you +1 hammers right away, +2 hammers with later technology, and +3 hammers when you add a railroad.

Which later technology?

[Qwertqwert]

Originally posted by Lord Chambers

I think this is bad advice. I play regularly on Emperor, and find that 9 times out of 10 setting other techs as my priority is a more prudent strategy. A beeline, which I think this poster is suggesting, neglects worker techs which could make your relatively dimunitive early pop signifigantly more productive. It also hinders your ability to war (iron working, metal casting, feudalism). I would wager that if you aren't REXing through settling or through war, you're playing a weaker game than someone who is.

This said, sometimes Alphabet is right up your alley. Often times writing is an important priority, as its neccesary for Code of Laws. Alphabet is just one tech away from it, but it costs a lot. Depending on the situation, you may be able to recoop the cost, but it depends on the map and how many opponents you have contact with. In all cases, it's going to take many turns. I play on Epic, and my slider is rapidly dropping around this time, so it usually costs at least 20 turns of research.

Personally, I find that getting alphabet early as unimportant. Expanding, that's important.

Probabally changes based on the diffculty, he's playing Noble and I usaually play eigher Noble or Prince so a lot easier than Emperor. Atleast on Noble and Prince, Alphabet is the way to go.

[Blake]

Picking up multiple early religions results in a weak start. Improving your terrain early on gives great turn advantage, so limit yourself to one early religion and get worker techs and focus on improving land and expanding. You can pick up later religions and really more than 2 or 3 religions is overkill, too expensive to spread.

[Blaupanzer]

The advantage of picking up religions is in PREVENTING their spread while you spread one thru open borders and missionaries. Having several civs with the same religion is an advantage if you are using a builder approach. Open borders provides early warning as the AI will cancel first and attack afterwords. Concentrate on whichever strategy you use. Builders, for example, need lots of money. So up with windmills and cottages. Skipping techs to go for Alphabet means lots of tech trading once it is in, but as noted, don't trade Alphabet. A warmonger can worry less about open borders since Mercantilism is useful in that mode. Why Isabella?