Mao Vs Qin- Which is the greater of the two Chinas?

[Bkeela]

Originally posted by Generaldoktor


From what I have experienced in my short time at Poly, any kind of "banana" is hysterically unreasonably popular. Glad you're all getting your potassium. Now what about plantains?

I always admire polls with the missing banana option. The conformist sheep, which constitute the majority of any given population, do get a bit hysterical if it is left off though.

Qin is probably my favourite for cultural victory. I reckon if you had Qin, along with both marble and stone within your first two cities, with one of the cities preferably on the coast, you could build all the wonders on Prince level, if not higher. Never been so lucky though.

[Qwertqwert]

IMO, Qin is the best of all of the leaders to play (Elizebeth and Cathrine are close 2nds) Though I voted banana, who started this banana thing anyway?

[Generaldoktor]

Originally posted by Qwertqwert
Though I voted banana, who started this banana thing anyway?

Ancient Apolyton history. You'll notice there is an oft-used banana smiley

Lord Shiva uses banana-on-banana cavalry as his icon.
There may be other user icons similar.

Bananas bring health in Civ4 and are relatively scarce and thus prized. I seem to remember some type of (also rare and prized) tropical fruit in Civ3, which may be banana; I haven't played vanilla Civ3 for almost two years.

Other than that I don't know. Maybe someone who's been here longer will enlighten us.

[conmcb25]

There were definately banana resources in C3C as there should be.

Banana Tse-Tung for teh win!

[Ijuin]

I would like to see Sun Yat-Sen, even if only because my great-great-great grandfather was his half-brother. ^_^

[Generaldoktor]

Replying, but check out new Patch!

Originally posted by Ijuin
I would like to see Sun Yat-Sen, even if only because my great-great-great grandfather was his half-brother. ^_^

What an interesting lineage. I don't know if they'd do it, because Sun never unified China. He's sort of like Benjamin Franklin in the U.S., pioneering the concept and doing a lot of the early work, but never succeeding to lead any but a fairly small part of the whole. Sun, of course, died unfortunately young. Maybe Joan of Arc is a better analogy. She was a Civ leader for awhile, but there was criticism of it because she was never a national "leader" in the true sense, in real life.

Off-topic alert! I'm sure there's a thread on this, but for those not checking, Firaxis is announcing on the game site, the new v. 161 Patch release, SDK and PitBoss! Aux Armes, Vive Le Republic of Civ!

[couerdelion]

I’m testing the two out with comparable starts at Monarch level. My expectation is that Mao will come out ahead because Philosophical is a much stronger trait than Industrious. I tend to think of Industrious as a rather poor trait since the benefit for me is often just saved hammers. It might, on some occasions give me the option of building a wonder that I would otherwise leave. More often than not, I will start work on a wonder when I have the requisite tech and perhaps the resource bonus. Those two factors tend to make the +50% bonus rather pitiful.

I even think that Mao is a better builder of wonders than Qin. He’s one who can reliably take the Oracle sling to Metal Casting and then generate a GE to rush the Pyramids. Representation with Philosophical makes an extremely powerful early game play.

[OssomTossom]

Originally posted by Generaldoktor


Ancient Apolyton history. You'll notice there is an oft-used banana smiley

Lord Shiva uses banana-on-banana cavalry as his icon.
There may be other user icons similar.

Bananas bring health in Civ4 and are relatively scarce and thus prized. I seem to remember some type of (also rare and prized) tropical fruit in Civ3, which may be banana; I haven't played vanilla Civ3 for almost two years.

Other than that I don't know. Maybe someone who's been here longer will enlighten us.

There were even bananas in Civ2, they gave extra food and (or?) commerce.

Otherwise, I prefer Mao to Qin (in the game). He just seems to suit me better (fiddling around with the Earth18Civs-scenario gives a chance to try them both in more-or-less the same circumstances, and playing as Mao there turned out much better than playing as Qin).

[Generaldoktor]

Originally posted by couerdelion
I’m testing the two out with comparable starts at Monarch level. My expectation is that Mao will come out ahead because Philosophical is a much stronger trait than Industrious. I tend to think of Industrious as a rather poor trait since the benefit for me is often just saved hammers. It might, on some occasions give me the option of building a wonder that I would otherwise leave. More often than not, I will start work on a wonder when I have the requisite tech and perhaps the resource bonus. Those two factors tend to make the +50% bonus rather pitiful.

I even think that Mao is a better builder of wonders than Qin. He’s one who can reliably take the Oracle sling to Metal Casting and then generate a GE to rush the Pyramids. Representation with Philosophical makes an extremely powerful early game play.

I like Industrious because of the cheap Forges, which once built also of themselves facilitate Wonder construction. Tests are always a good idea, I've never played with Mao; mostly because I'm an ancient era freak and like to play with the old-timey leaders. In the real world Earth though, with more than 18 civs, Mao comes out ahead I think because he finally reunited the biggest version of China, barring Indochina, and defeated the barbarians! I voted for Qin, but Mao may come out better.

Banana OT: What we newbies are trying to find out is why bananas are so important to Apolyton. (Phallic symbolism? ) We know they are important (sort of) to Civ.

[Arrian]

I like both Mao and Qin. Both have solid trait combos. If I once stated that I prefer Mao... hrm, I dunno - must've been the context of the discussion (prolly the relative worth of ORG).

Which one I pick depends on what type of game I want to play. If I want to go wonder-happy, I'll go with Qin. If I want to get big & bad and/or go GP-crazy, Mao is the better choice.

-Arrian

[Generaldoktor]

Originally posted by Arrian
Which one I pick depends on what type of game I want to play. If I want to go wonder-happy, I'll go with Qin. If I want to get big & bad and/or go GP-crazy, Mao is the better choice.-Arrian

Somebody said Wonders best value is GP. That wasn't me, they all have some other utility, but I haven't found "wonder-happy" and "GP-crazy" to really be separate tracks, when I want one, I want both.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Generaldoktor
Other than that I don't know. Maybe someone who's been here longer will enlighten us.

[off-topic]

I am not an ancient

This whole banana thing was started by a poster named Stefu as some sort of a joke shortly after Apolyton had upgraded to vBB. Somehow it stuck and became a local tradition.

[/off-topic]

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Generaldoktor
In the real world Earth though, with more than 18 civs, Mao comes out ahead I think because he finally reunited the biggest version of China, barring Indochina, and defeated the barbarians! I voted for Qin, but Mao may come out better.

Qin also unified China by defeating the other six states. There were a total of seven states during the Warring State period, and Qin (that's actually the name of one of the states) ended it by ultimately conquering the rest.

Mao did defeat the KMT and a bunch of warlords although China was in one piece, even though maybe just in name only.

[Generaldoktor]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Qin also unified China by defeating the other six states. There were a total of seven states during the Warring State period, and Qin (that's actually the name of one of the states) ended it by ultimately conquering the rest.

Mao did defeat the KMT and a bunch of warlords although China was in one piece, even though maybe just in name only.

Ah, so; the Warring States. Didn't realize the old boy got that far and when, but I could have researched closer. Always liked him anyway. Well, the consensus seems to be Mao is the man, among "experienced players.' (If the Barbs would leave me alone in v.161, maybe I'd get more experienced, but no complaints with that version, overall.) I voted for Qin anyway and will play him again at first opportunity as I hear "financial" is somewhat neutered now.

Bananas Redux: Finally, an explanation! Praise Be to the Ancients. Praise Be to Bananas!

[kittenOFchaos]

Got to be Qin, can't stand the notion of Mao and those uber-crossbows.