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  • Neo-liberalism and Domination

    Here's my thesis: the best civics combination when going for a domination win is what might be understood as neo-liberalism -

    Universal Suffrage
    Free Speech
    Emancipation
    Free Market
    Free Religion


    The philosophy behind this is that cash-rushing is the critical tool to beating back the AI's advantages on higher difficulty levels. Maximizing your economy lets you counteract the loss of each one of the benefits from the civics you're not using, while giving you significantly more strategic flexibility.

    Before I get into the analysis, here are my parameters (which I realize might be so narrow as to make this useless for anyone else): I tend to play continents or terra maps, on marathon, monarch or emperor difficulty, single-player, with no mods. I turn off cultural and diplomatic wins, but keep space race on, not because I'm going for it but just to keep me on my toes.

    For this post, I'm going to try to build on what I've learned from the great strategy threads on this forum. I assume the reader, from those threads, is fairly advanced in her understanding of Civ4 strategy in the early- and mid-game: grabbing and spreading multiple religions, coastal city placement, early caravels, exploitative tech trading, Great Person type-focusing, production vs. commerce city specialization, resource acquisition, maintenance and upkeep management, and of course, military tactics. I'll focus instead on the period just before and during the bid for invasion (the moment you get the Kremlin and the Pentagon, while setting up the Eiffel Tower run, is probably a good marker), explaining why I choose the above civics over the other options. Also, I have found an alternate civics approach, which focuses on delayed frequent Great People popping; that's briefly run through at the end. The key here is that, either way, you examine civics not in isolation from each other, but as a unified strategy which uses the benefits of each to compensate for the vulnerabilities and opportunity costs of the others.


    GOVERNMENT

    The chief purpose of your government civic, other than getting you cash-rushing, is dealing with unhappiness. I think the better way to go is theaters and a liberal use of the culture slider. Theaters are cheap and necessary to get the Globe running in your pop-stuffed mega-science city, while plenty of culture is necessary to rush border expansion in conquered cities. This strategy also matches up elegantly with your war plans, since you won't start getting significant war weariness, and thus a need to crank the culture slider, until your invasion is well under way, which means most of your relevant research is done and you can afford to turn down the science slider accordingly.

    - Hereditary Rule: War weariness can make this a tempting option, but ultimately it requires too many troops sitting at home, which is lost production and, through unit support cost, a big drag on the economy. If you're really worried about happiness, jails and Mt. Rushmore are superior options. If those still aren't enough, you've got much more serious structural problems relating to luxury resources, commerce, and religion.

    - Representation: Putting aside its incredible value in the early- and mid-game with the Pyramids, and the fact that it's cheaper than Universal Suffrage, this just can't overcome the absence of cash-rushing. As noted earlier, I prefer theaters and the culture slider to deal with war weariness (it also works everywhere, as opposed to just your top cities). And by the time you're getting your invasion ready, the three-beakers-per-specialist bonus just ain't enough to make a dent in the huge research costs. Let's be generous and say you've got an average of 5 specialists in 20 cities, and a cumulative +100% bonus to science in each, so Representation gets you 3 * 5 * 20 * 2 = 600 extra beakers per turn. That's an enormous boost in the early game, not so later on.

    - Police State: The difficulty here, other than prohibiting cash-rushing, is that you don't want to use both of the benefits to this civic simultaneously. In other words, you've got to build your invasion force before you declare war. Before the invasion, the ability to cash-rush troops and key buildings, plus the raw hammer bonus to towns, more than makes up for the 25% bonus. Using Police State during the invasion is more defensible, but the high upkeep cost potentially forces you out of better uses for your economy. 10% more commerce directed to overcoming the upkeep cost of Police State is 10% less commerce devoted to culture, meaning one less happy point (1.5 with coliseums added) and significantly slower border expansion (even more noticeable with Free Speech and/or the Eiffel Tower, which of course are must-haves).


    LEGAL

    The legal category is where the map type and other circumstances give you the most flexibility. Free Speech is a great civic - no upkeep plus the raw commerce bonus is a big boost to your economy. The cultural doubling is fantastic for any warmonger, but it's especially beneficial for continental invasions since your native cities' culture can't reach across the ocean.

    - Vassalage: Miss the Pentagon? Or going for 10 out of the box? Neither put you in a great situation. The Pentagon is one of only seven wonders that produce Great Engineers, and starts you with level 2 units without running either of the expensive XP bonus civics (what's more, keeping it from other civs forces them to do so). The costs of getting to 10 XP for new units are, in my opinion, prohibitive - high upkeep for Vassalage, medium for Theocracy, not to mention the opportunity costs of the civics you're missing out on. Settling for 6 XP lets you run a sounder economy and cash-rush a few more troops, and there's nothing that one level 3 unit can do that two level 2 units can't. The extra free unit support is usually swamped by the high upkeep cost.

    - Nationhood: This has a lot of appeal if you're playing Pangaea-type maps where, unlike with continents, you're potentially on the defensive and tend to have barracks in every city instead of just the production ones. I think I'd still stick with Free Speech, though, since it makes for a better economy. That means a bump to the culture slider to make up for the happiness, and cash-rushing is a kind of slow, pop-preserving draft.

    - Bureaucracy: Like Representation, a great civic that fades with time. If you've got plenty of cottages started early, as you should, Free Speech will come out ahead on commerce civ-wide, especially since there's a fairly wide difference in upkeep costs. And even if you've got a small civ with the capital as the primary production center, easier cash-rushing makes up for the hammer bonus.


    LABOR

    Eventually, you will be forced into Emancipation whether you want it or not. Lots of different leaders love it, and the AI seems to know just how bad it'll hurt you. It can be useful for the conqueror at any rate, since the AI's cottages are often under-improved.

    - Slavery: It's free, and whipping unhappy conquered citizens is useful. There's even a good case to be made for waiting until the AI forces you to switch, especially if your own cottages are fully improved. I particularly enjoy pop-rushing happiness-boosting buildings, but then, I enjoyed nerve-stapling, too. But don't think it's a substitute for cash-rushing - money is made to be spent; it has no other purpose. That isn't true for citizens, of course, and it takes much longer to get them back. There's also much less fine-tune control - if whipping one citizen leaves you even a single hammer shy of completion, you're stuck with whipping two.

    - Serfdom: By the time you're readying your invasion force, your terrain improvements should be basically complete. Sure, there are railroads to build and maybe some bio-farms to move around, but nothing that justifies the switch.

    - Caste System: If you have the food to support it, you can make back the upkeep cost compared to slavery, and pull off some interesting stunts with Great People, while you're waiting for the inevitable AI Emancipation wave. Otherwise, you'll probably leave it on Slavery from the moment you get Bronze Working.


    ECONOMY

    Unsurprisingly, economic civics are all about money management. Assuming you've got a harbor in virtually every city, Free Market's raw commerce bonus is incredible; it's cheap on the upkeep, too.

    - Mercantilism: If you ignored the GPP factor, this'd be very straightforward, as the trade route bonus and the lower upkeep cost of Free Market would easily trump the free specialists' economic bonus, and cash-rushing takes care of the production boost from any priests or engineers. But specific Great People work great for the domination player – Merchants give massive cash for rushing, a well-placed culture bomb can make your invasion much smoother and prevent opportunistic third civs from settling on your newly acquired continent, and nothing need be said about the value of Engineers. Still, unless you've set yourself up for it well in advance, pulling off the Great People timing is so difficult that I prefer to stick with the much more flexible commerce bonus.

    - State Property: An interesting civic. Build (or better yet, capture) Versailles, and most of the benefit here disappears. It's true that you'll still save a good chunk of cash due to persistent distance maintenance and the higher upkeep costs compared to Free Market. The problem is that, while it's easy to check the sum total distance maintenance cost in the finances advisor screen, it's difficult to calculate the civ-wide cash benefit from the extra trade route, so comparisons are difficult. But it seems to me that Free Market doesn't do too bad. And the key difference is that trade routes provide raw commerce, which gets magnified by the buildings you've chosen, and directed by the sliders you've set, which means you're in control of how the bonus works. State Property does make workshops and watermills useful, but the amount of pre-planning and re-working those improvements require make this fairly incidental.

    - Environmentalism: Probably the most under-powered civic in the game. It comes late, has high upkeep, requires keeping jungles around, provides a usually unnecessary health bonus, and doesn't even get much of a happiness boost.


    RELIGION

    The most important quality of Free Religion for the domination-minded is that a conquered city gets culture points for any present religion, not just your state one. That means you don't have to keep cranking out missionaries and can stick to wealth production in your core cities. And the 10% research bonus represents a bump on the culture or cash sliders while keeping nearly the same final science rate. Losing the religious spying effect is easily counteracted by spies.

    - Organized Religion: Great in the early- and mid-game, of course, but when you're staging the invasion you're primarily working on units. The upkeep savings and wealth production mentioned above gives you the cash to make up for the lost production bonus on the remaining buildings. If you need a few missionaries, you should have leftover monasteries from the early game.

    - Theocracy: At this point in the game, non-state religion spread is crucial - more culture and temples in border towns and newly conquered cities is vital to pulling off a domination win. As for the XP boost, see the Vassalage discussion. It's cheaper than Vassalage, but no free unit support bonus makes it a wash.

    - Pacifism: Your invasion force makes this economically prohibitive. The upkeep savings over Free Religion is swamped by it, and counteracted by the functional 10% commerce boost mentioned above. I've covered my skepticism on a mixed GPP/commerce approach in the Mercantilism discussion.



    That's that for my primary strategy. The alternate strategy I alluded to at the opening of this post is focusing entirely on specialists and GPP generation, and on top of that, delaying Great Person completion until you start building your invasion force, then cranking them out in rapid succession. Here's the alternate civics combination -

    Representation
    Bureaucracy
    Caste System (or Slavery)
    Mercantilism
    Pacifism


    The delay is due to the significant rise in required GPP for each subsequent Great Person - this means that there are, practically speaking, only so many Great People you can generate, and they're much less useful in the early game (for example, you can't maximize the Great Merchant cash bomb until caravels, or really benefit from cheap 2-person Golden ages until you've got fully populated cities). So your food is better spent in the early game growing your cities rather than sinking them in sub-optimal specialists, other than those for grabbing the necessary Great Prophets for shrines or pulling off the CS slingshot. This strategy works best when you're dealing with primarily inland cities (no harbors to make trade routes more attractive) that can generate tons of food, you pull off the Pyramids, and you've got a Philosophical or Industrious leader (there is no leader who has both).

    Depending on your production situation, it may be better to use your food advantage to pop-rush with Slavery, or crank your cash using tons of merchant specialists with Caste System (for both the raw cash and by popping Great Merchants) then switching to Universal Suffrage to use it up.


    I hope that this sparks an interesting discussion.
    Last edited by zabrak; April 2, 2006, 14:36.

  • #2
    I rarely use free religion - I tend to spread my religion like hell - as the spying bonus is just too good, and the +25% prod. more than makes up the 10% science bonus (which I don't see much when I get under 8 turns / tech)... Pacifism is usually out of the way, since I relish in having mighty armies to get me all those fancy resources to keep my people happy...


    on large, far-flung empires, I've experienced a net gain switching to state property, though I generally avoid re-working my terrain enhancements on my core... newly conquered cities do get a full production treatment if they're close to possible new fronts, making watermills (which I don't build otherwise: I'd rather have a cottage and a farm than two windmills) and workshops (which I don't build at all... I usually want my cities to grow, and food excesses are generally better off spent on mines or (more probably) GP than workshops...

    MErcantilism can be very powerful in those Terra games in which most poeple hate you but you're fully concentrated on colonizing the new world: not only the free specialists boost your colonizing effort, but the domestic trade routs overseas (which if you're not much liked you're having anyway) can be as profitable as foreign trade routes with close neighbours...

    If you've got lots of trading partners though, free market rocks... especially with the cheap rushbuying the Kremlin provides (it must be my favourite wonder)
    Indifference is Bliss

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    • #3
      I often go to nationhood for a short period specifically to draft riflemen. If you have a globe theatre slave city, you can get a lot of troops out of it during this time.

      Vassalage is weak in the late game, it's only good if you got Feudalism early.

      I will run theocracy if I have a well spread religion but don't have the pentagon because 6Xp units are worth it. The 0 to +3 culture bonus you typically get from free religion in captured cities I find to be insignificant compared to what you get from the culture slider + free speech bonus anyway.

      State property is also very good for domination wins and saves a lot of cash, you have less trading partners to use the free market bonus anyway while pushing towards domination.

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      • #4
        In my experience,state property saves more cash than free market gives.
        Best regards,

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        • #5
          I agree that State Property can net you more cash than Free Market, especially if your Palace/FP/Versailles placement is lopsided. I'll still defend Free Markets as the default choice though, for this reason: State Property won't save you so much cash that you can bump both the science and culture sliders one click each and keep the same net cash income. That means you're necessarily losing science and culture income, since going off of Free Market decreases your raw commerce. Now, towards the end of the game, when you've got, say, more than 55% or so of the land area, or when your potential trading partners have been reduced by war, it becomes more and more irresistible. But during the build-up and much of the invasion, I'd contend that the flexibility to dump more into science or culture is worthwhile. Fortunately, you can switch between the two and not affect the overall strategy, and the anarchy period is less important during the invasion itself since you retain control of the troops (and don't have to pay 'em!) and the resistance period during which you can't cash-rush in conquered cities still counts down.

          I'm skeptical that you can ever pull in the same kind of commerce with Mercantilism as you can with Free Market. Mercantilism takes a double hit on raw commerce from trade routes - one less, and domestic only - on top of which it has higher upkeep costs. But I haven't crunched the numbers, and I'll concede that certain circumstances can change the balance, so point well taken.

          As for Free Religion, I don't think the cultural effect is anything to sneeze at. Free Speech and a broadcast tower give a +150% boost to culture - if your state religion is already in place, that's 2.5 per turn, which I believe gets rounded down to 2. If it's not present, you've got to have missionaries tagging along with your invasion force, which can be an economic drag since you can't build up a big stockpile and thus have to switch off of wealth in a core city. It gets even better if there are two (any two!) religions in place, because then it gets magnified to five. Underdeveloped cottages and the eight-tile limitation in newly conquered cities often mean you can't rely on the culture slider to get the first border expansion in under 10 turns.

          By this point in the game, I'm willing to trade Organized Religion's building production bonus for much lower upkeep costs and the 10% research boost. I think of it this way: every city not producing a building (which between units, wealth, and turtling in the mid-game, should be the vast majority of your core) isn't benefited by Organized Religion, and instead is actively harmed in the form of upkeep and the 10% research opportunity cost. For the sake of discussion, let's say that this economic cost is equivalent to the production gain, through the cash-rushing algorithm or whatever else you want to use to compare them. In that case, all three tie-breakers go in Free Religion's favor - the strategic flexibility of cash-rushing versus fixed-location native production, the cultural boost in conquered cities, and the diplomatic flexibility with civs running a different state religion. That last one is non-trivial for the warmonger on continents maps, given the value of keeping their luxury resources coming into your cities and potential rivals or (land-stealing partners) out of your war.
          Last edited by zabrak; April 2, 2006, 17:51.

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          • #6
            If you have a stratagy planned around it, the amount of research you can get from representation is just amazing. My primary late-game economic stratagy is usually statue of liberty-representation; if you can pull that off, you will pull ahead of the AI's in technology.

            Also, what difficulty level are you playing at? On the harder levels, where upkeep costs are higher, state property is far ahead of free market in surplus commerce production even without a very large empire, and the food bonus is significant as well.

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            • #7
              Great post zabrak

              I have to go with fed1943 on State Property.

              I agree with you Zabrak that Free market is better than Merc., and Merc. should also only be used in combination with Representation. The extra raw commerce from traderoutes is better than the +1 specialist in each city.....unless you do not have any open borders ofcourse.

              But theres is a time when State Property becomes better. I have not done any calculations but when you have about 50% of the land it seems a good time to swith to SP.

              By the time communism is discovered I usuallly have about 50% of the worlds lands area. Nice timing to switch to State Property.

              I can only speak from ingame experience. It will save more cash than Free market earns.
              The +1 food advantage to watermills and workshops have to be actively taken into account though. I find that watermills, with SP. and electricity, is very usefull to build instead of farms in the late game, on rivers.
              Please include the Vikings in the Expansion :-)
              Disabling Creative Live Soundcard and use Onboard Sound = No more lock ups and restarts. I am reborn after I found out about this....and then it startet again.

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              • #8
                I certainly agree on the power of a strategy centered on the Representation research bonus, and on a pure specialist approach in general. In fact, the game I'm playing right now is on a Lakes map where I've been building almost entirely farms. My plan is to use the alternate strategy sketched out in the OP, except running with Representation and Slavery the entire game instead of Caste System to generate cash and Universal Suffrage to spend it. I have to admit the micromanaging involved with checking each city to see if the citizens required for the pop-rush has dipped is tiresome, but I'm light-years ahead of the AI on tech.

                I typically play on Emperor, sometimes ducking down to Monarch when I'm trying something new. Again, I'm more than sold on the cash-conserving superiority of State Property - my preference for Free Market during the force-buildup phase and the intial invasion phase is based on its greater economic flexibilty, since State Property doesn't generate commerce but rather saves cash. For Free Market to be competitive with State Property in the late invasion phase requires several conditions: good alignment of your Palace/FP/Versailles, mostly coastal core cities with all the cash-multiplying structures in place, enough trade partners still around, and strong enough research infrastructure to afford devoting more than 10% of commerce to cash and still keep a good scientific pace. It's rare you can line all these up, and so usually State Property will be a necessary switch at some point.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by zabrak
                  Underdeveloped cottages and the eight-tile limitation in newly conquered cities often mean you can't rely on the culture slider to get the first border expansion in under 10 turns.
                  Even if the city has no raw commerce, rushing a theatre (which you generally need anyway) or assigning an artist gets you border expansion in 2 under free speech.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Not on marathon, where the first expansion is at 30 and the second is at 300.

                    Here's the breakout with a state religion:
                    a) Just the culture point from the state religion's presence is 1, times 2.5 for Free Speech and a broadcast tower is 2.5, rounded down is 2, or 15 turns for the first expansion and 150 for the second.
                    b) A theater plus the religious culture is 4, times 2.5 is 10, or 3 for the first and 30 for the second.
                    c) An artist plus the religious culture is 5, times 2.5 is 12.5, rounded down is 12, or 3 for the first and 25 for the second.
                    d) Theater plus artist plus the religious culture is 8, times 2.5 is 20, or 2 for the first and 15 for the second.

                    It's obviously the same for Free Religion with any of the 7 religions in place.

                    Free Religion with 2 religions:
                    a) Neither - 2 * 2.5 = 5, 6 then 60.
                    b) Theater only - 5 *2.5 = 12.5, 3 then 25.
                    c) Artist only - 6 * 2.5 = 15, 2 then 20.
                    d) Both - 9 * 2.5 = 22.5, 2 then 14.

                    Free Religion with 3 religions:
                    a) Neither - 3 * 2.5 = 7.5, 5 then 43.
                    b) Theater only - 6 * 2.5 = 15, 2 then 20.
                    c) Artist only - 7 * 2.5 = 17.5, 2 then 18.
                    d) Both - 10 * 2.5 = 25, 2 then 12.

                    So, is Free Religion a heartstopper? Of course not. But it does provide a noticeable boost to border expansion in conquered cities, and without having to produce constant missionaries, saving time and cash. Add the research bonus, diplomatic flexibility with the AIs with different state religions, and cheap upkeep, and you've got a winner.

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                    • #11
                      Interesting post, but I disagree a couple of those civic picks.

                      First of all, I am a huge fan of state property and running this civic provides me with a HUGE cash bonus in almost every game I play. If you get this early enough and combine with the Kremlin and US, you will be unstoppable in the late game. I tend to do a lot of conquering early which makes this civic an easy choice for me. I find that it is rarely worth the effort to build Versailles on harder difficulty levels, when I can just switch to SP in one turn, all the while churning out units.
                      This is probably the best civic in the game for domination. IMO mercantilism is very poor compared with FM or SP. By the time FM comes around it is pointless to run mercantilism in domination games as you should be concentrating on units and conquest not specialists.

                      Universal Suffrage is another favorite of mine, but I don't run it for very long when at war. I will use this as springboard to war and cash rush many units then switch to police state and then take as many cities as possible. Afterwards I switch back to US and repeat. I think the two civics are equally important here.

                      Emancipation and Free speech are obviously the best of the bunch in those categories.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Agreed on the low value of building Versailles yourself. I prefer to let the AI build it on another continent, just like how in Civ3 I wanted the AI to build Sun Tzu and JS Bach on its continent, to make my conquering easier. In fact, I do the same thing with Divine Right that I did with Music Theory in Civ3 - trade (or give) it to a selected civ where I'd find Versailles most useful. Industrious civs seem to start it up right away, but I've also found builder-types like Cyrus and Mansa go for it. I'll even send them some marble to speed it up, if they're wanting.

                        I think map type has a lot to do with the relative values of State Property and Free Market. I conquer my continent as soon as feasible, of course, but that's rarely enough cities on my prefered map type to make State Property the overwhelming choice the instant I get it. I'm racing for Communism to get the Kremlin (and to a lesser extent, spies) and when I get it, I do a survey of my trade-route income and attempt to calculate what the lost revenue from giving up the extra trade route would be, versus the easily discernable cash savings from State Property. On my maps, it's usually not worth it, and I hold off on the switch until my game-ending invasion is in full swing and the distance costs are becoming unbearable. I realize that kind of map ain't everybody's style.

                        The Spiritual trait obviously strikes against the core premise of any discussion about the value of one civic against another, since fast switching lets you do two things: a) easily compare the actual effect of different civics instead of just speculating, and b) use the best of both worlds, as it were. It's true that, on the one hand, extended Anarchy is much less painful during the invasion because you're primarily moving units and waiting for resistance to end instead of building. But on the other hand, once that resistance is over, it can really slow down the domination win, because ever since the patch culture doesn't accumulate during Anarchy, which means you're potentially losing tiles to opportunistic civs with whom you're not prepared for war. So if you're not playing a Spirtual civ, planning your civics choices/timing in advance and sticking with them is crucial to success.
                        Last edited by zabrak; April 3, 2006, 14:42.

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                        • #13
                          About Free religion VS Organized religion.

                          I only use Free Religion if I am the underdog in the civ pack. That is if I am way behind in power.
                          I use Free Rel. to please other civs, getting rid of the "we dont like youre heathen religion". Thus lowering the chance of invasion. Sometimes you can just switch to youre neighbors religion, if thats the civ you fear....it all depends on youre specific situation.

                          I prefer Org. religion, so if I feel that I can handle any Invasion attempt, I will stick to that, or sometimes gamble if I fell lucky enough to handle more powerfull civs.

                          The 10% to research is great, but I think +25% building speed is better. After all, you get all the beaker multipliers 25% faster. All the hammers you save on wonders is also a very powerfull incentive to stick with Org. rel.

                          About the extra culture and happiness from Free Rel., I dont think it matters much if you are going for a domination victory. Theatres for culture should be enough to bump captured cities borders, and happiness is not much of a problem, in my experience, in the late domination game. You should be fine with all the luxury resources you control or can trade for.
                          Last edited by make; April 3, 2006, 12:28.
                          Please include the Vikings in the Expansion :-)
                          Disabling Creative Live Soundcard and use Onboard Sound = No more lock ups and restarts. I am reborn after I found out about this....and then it startet again.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by zabrak

                            Here's the alternate civics combination -

                            Representation
                            Bureaucracy
                            Caste System (or Slavery)
                            Mercantilism
                            Pacifism
                            This is what I usually run, especially if I have the Pyramids and can run Representation. Mercantilism meshes well with Represention, as does Pacifism. Pacifism boosts the Great People, and more importantly, it offers a great alternative to having a state religion, which generally only gets me in trouble at the higher levels. I only play pangea, so this is quite a bit more important than on islands. So, as soon as Philosophy is discovered, I usually switch to Pacifism, unless there is more incentive to switch to a religion shared by the crowd I want to get in good with, in which case, I'll run Organized Religion or even Theocracy. Also, I never found a religion for this reason. It just diverts from the main tech paths and usually results in angering The wrong civs.

                            But I differ in that I run Pacifism early on, generating the GPs to keep me current or slightly ahead in tech. At the higher levels, a tech lead is tenuous at best. Meanwhile, I'm waging early warfare to increase the typically puny size of my starting civ (~3 cities). I almost always play pangea standard emperor, though my recent games are now immortal.

                            Originally posted by zabrak

                            Universal Suffrage
                            Free Speech
                            Emancipation
                            Free Market
                            Free Religion
                            This combo is what I usually run late in the game, but if State property is available, I will run that to save money. For a large empire, State Property will be the best civic. Free Market is good when you have a small civ trading with large foreign cities. But adding +1 trade routes, when the trade routes are only providing 1 coin, doesn't do much compared to Mercantilism. Later in the game, the number of foreign cities diminish, so they don’t provide much in return.

                            Pacifism eventually gives way to Free Religion, since GPs have been generated past the point of diminishing returns. Emancipation is required as the AI knows how to use this effectively against the human player. Free Speech outweighs Bureaucracy by the mid to late Industrial era. Universal Suffrage is great in the mid-Industrial era and beyond, though a switch to Police State is often required during a protracted war.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Shaka II
                              Pacifism boosts the Great People, and more importantly, it offers a great alternative to having a state religion, which generally only gets me in trouble at the higher levels.
                              Pacifism do not require a state religion? This is new to me. After all those game I did not notice that.....hmm, perhaps I should try Pacifism soon.

                              In regard to Mercantalism. I agree that Merc. is better on Pangea, because you do not have many coastal cities.
                              On continents you have mainly coastal cities, and it is in them the really profitable traderoutes is, so on continents you would experience that Free Markets profit from the foeign trade and the +1 traderoute gives a massive boost in raw commerce, especially with harbours in place.
                              Please include the Vikings in the Expansion :-)
                              Disabling Creative Live Soundcard and use Onboard Sound = No more lock ups and restarts. I am reborn after I found out about this....and then it startet again.

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