Build order later in game

[couerdelion]

All the questions so far have been about the beginning of the game but I’m certain that there could be some way of optimising the build order for newer cities that are set up once there are many choices for buildings. I also wanted to check how my build order compared to others.

1) Culture – Not necessarily a build in the city since the obvious way of getting culture there is to convert the city. This will be most important if the resource tiles are not in the small-square and if it is a border city. First choice would be a theatre because its cheap. Can skip this if playing a creative civ
2) Granary – We want the city to grow since, if we are running slavery, growth = production. Granaries are almost always the fastest way for growth
3) Lighthouse – If I am using many sea tiles- particularly resources ones then the extra food will help growth

After this it’s pretty much a question of circumstances. Likely candidates for the next build are library or courthouse depending on the benefit they provide the civ overall. Also will depend on happy/health limits or if the city is to generate GPs. In fact there are too many variables here including the civ traits.

[make]

I agree very much with you.

In the late game, after capturing a city, or more rarely, founding one myself, my build order will most often be...

1.
Theater for culture (border expansion)
2.
Granary for growth
3.
Lighthouse if seatiles is being worked (growth)
4
Differs much, but most often
forge (production)
courthouse (reduce maintanance)
or library (science and culture)

[Stickyman]

Late game cities for me are almost always captures and on a border. I usually build as follows:

1. Theatre
2. Religion 1 temple
3. Religion 2 temple
4. Religion 3 temple
5. Religion, etc. temple
6. Granary
7. Lighthouse
8. Forge
9. Courthouse
10. Whatever monestaries are available
11. Whatever cathadrals are available.

I find pushing the borders to be the #1 priority.

[Fallenhero]

Don't forget libraries. I usually go theatre first but after a granary and/or forge I like to put one in if I have over five beakers showing.

That way you have 5-6 culture pushing out in no time.

[Veritass]

...and don't forget to select Universal Suffrage, so you can cash-rush each item in one turn. Toward the end of the game, it is not unusual for me to cash-run a theatre one turn, the library next turn, the granary next turn, and a worker the next turn to replace the stuff I might have pillaged on the way in.

[Quillan]

Yes, like you guys, most of my late game cities are captures near hostile territory. The focus there is culture IMMEDIATELY. So, theater first, a temple or two next, cathedral if available, finish all temples, etc. Basically I build every single improvement that will add or modify culture there, rush buying with Universal Sufferage. Quite often, I've got enough money to slap out the theater and two temples in three turns, with two turns for a cathedral (let it build one turn to cut the cost).

Once the cultural danger is minimized, I usually build a granary first, followed by a lighthouse if coastal, then a library (though that's often in the initial culture build). I'll toss in a market and grocer after these for health once the city starts growing. It'll get a barracks at the very end, since by this point other cities are supplying the units. If it's going to generate a lot of commerce, I will build a bank, university and observatory there too, but those are lower priority.

My priorities:

1) Cultural development if bordering hostile territory.
2) Growth

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by Quillan
Yes, like you guys, most of my late game cities are captures near hostile territory. The focus there is culture IMMEDIATELY. So, theater first, a temple or two next, cathedral if available, finish all temples, etc. Basically I build every single improvement that will add or modify culture there, rush buying with Universal Sufferage. Quite often, I've got enough money to slap out the theater and two temples in three turns, with two turns for a cathedral (let it build one turn to cut the cost).

Actually, that sounds a little profligate. I would rarely build immediately because the saving for waiting one turn are considerable and this is unlikely to be the only city where I want to rush a building .

[Hermann the Lombard]

My approach is Theater, Granary, Lighthouse if there's inadequate food on land, Forge, Courthouse, Library. I'll rush buy if feasible. I might then add a temple. Monasteries are usually obsolete by the time I'm using that build sequence.

[couerdelion]

One small adjustment would be if I have too many people in a captured city who cannot be fed.

They tend to be made into a courthouse if it is expensive.

[Stickyman]

Yes, Fallenhero, I forgot Libraries. Usually after temples, before Monasteries.

In my current game, I don't have Universal Sufferage to buy improvements yet. I decided on a domination win early. I'm in phase II (taking out my second civ).

I think its time to move up from Noble.

[Hermann the Lombard]

Originally posted by couerdelion
One small adjustment would be if I have too many people in a captured city who cannot be fed.

They tend to be made into a courthouse if it is expensive.

Ah, a courthouse built from the bones of the disgruntled, a fine object lesson to keep the locals productive. "Executions will continue until morale improves."

[Shaka II]

Originally posted by couerdelion
One small adjustment would be if I have too many people in a captured city who cannot be fed.

They tend to be made into a courthouse if it is expensive.

Are you saying that you use slavery?

Late game, the captured cities often have only a few tiles with enemy culture borders surrounding them. So starvation begins the moment they come out of revolt. I pop rush a theater immediately to save as many as I can (my reasoning is I kill them to save them ) and jack up the culture rate to pop the borders.

After the theater, I build a courthouse to reduce the drain on my treasury, pop rushing that too after 1 turn, unless the city is too small. That's if I'm Organized. If not, then I'll probably build the courthouse the long way.

After that, usually granary, lighthouse if applicable, then barracks or units depending on urgency. By then I don't have time to build infrastructure like the forge usually. No need for libraries, my core and big cities take care of science. Just pump out units for domination, sometimes not even veterans. The purpose of most captured cities in a domination game, in the end game anyway, is to not be a burden, to not slow you down. In the mid game, enemy capitals may turn out to be better than your own, certainly they'll have a lot more wonders, so it's quite a different story, but in the end game it's the push for domination for me.

[Badtz Maru]

Originally posted by couerdelion
One small adjustment would be if I have too many people in a captured city who cannot be fed.

They tend to be made into a courthouse if it is expensive.

I usually can't afford the happiness hit from slavery except in the early game, though recently I had a game where I used slavery well into the AD era because I had a lot of health and happiness specials (was playing with a map script I had downloaded). Maybe with a Spiritual civ, but you'd still be stuck with Slavery for 5 turns before you can have another revolution, unless you time it for right before you get a new civic tech.

[Velociryx]

Drugs wore off in the night and I couldn't go back to sleep.

My take is somewhat different, and in general, I do it thusly:

1) FORGE. A forge is an "enabling build." That is to say, it will modify and enhance ANY build that comes after it (in 99% of the cases, and in those that it does not, due to # of tiles worked/# of hammers produced, it will begin to pay dividends shortly thereafter) (frequently slave rushed)

2) Evaluate the need for a CourtHouse (not always needed, but IF needed, then it becomes the second build) (frequently chopped)

3) Border Bump Theater, Temple, or other happy producer. Frequently slave rushed (at this point, I have executed two nearly back-to-back slave rushes in the new city, and can't do more than that for a time), so then we get to work on some of the "seminal infrastructure--granary, lighthouse, library, market, etc) as warranted.

Population growth IS important to me in a new city, even one acquired by conquest, but not until I can better control that city (even if their populations will, by and large, be used to slave rush infrastructure, because "by and large" isn't quite the same thing as "definitely always"). Thus, it becomes important to my way of thinking and my style of play to maintain tight controls on HOW the population of a newly conquered city developes.

Usually, it's your developed core that wins the game, not your newly conquered cities. Therefore, I give my newly conquered cities the tools they need to grow into whatever they most desire to be (forge for hammer bonus, courthouse for corruption bonus and to make the growth period not unbearably expensive, and enough culture to encapsulate the entirety of their "fat cross," THEN a granary to facilitate their growth (now that the foriegn miscreants have been put to the sword) and then...then it is time to see what direction their growth might take.

-=Vel=-

[couerdelion]

Vel,

I would make one comment on the forge build since I find it difficult to see why this should be far up the build order. We might be talking of several situations including

1) Border city (settled)
2) Internal city (settled)
3) Border city but no neighbours (settled)
4) Captured city (still at war)
5) Captured city (at peace)

I suspect that 1,4 and 5 are the most common and 4) and 5) will bring with them baggage - some good and some bad. With the captured cities you’ll often have a decent sized population but not enough food so the immediate pop-rush is almost a given. Most of the resources in the fat cross will be improved unless you have pillaged them and you’ll have some existing building which will cut out some of the necessary improvements. One of the biggest problems though will be the cultural pressure from its former owner which will steal tiles and perhaps even threaten the city security.

The food shortage will often lead you into immediate pop-rushing and this could be your main source of production in the first few turns. Afterwards, while the forge may help a little, I think that population growth and full use of city tiles are likely to be a better source of increased hammers than the 25% bonus from a forge.

Of course, one problem with expanding a city for more resources while at war will be that those improvements then become targets for enemy pillaging. It makes sense to treat the "at war" option as a special case to the general question of build priorities.