How the h@ll do they do it!?

[Urban Ranger]

Re: How the h@ll do they do it!?

Originally posted by MrPhil
Ok, I just started a new game (Noble, Large Map, Continents) as Washington everything else default. I was pretty pleased with my starting position. Coastal with seafood, gold and a river right next door.

Originally posted by MrPhil
Mysticism
Poltheism
Hunting
Mining
Priesthood
Animal Husbandry

If you have seafood you probably should research fishing as a priority. I also think your research sequence is messed up. Ignore the religion until later - unless you want to build Stonehenge. Go with the practical stuff first, techs that let you expand and explore.

In your particular I will go with hunting first (I always go with hunting first), then fishing, mining, pottery (for cottages), bronze working, in that order. If I don't have a coastal start I will postone fishing till later. if there is stone or marble near me masionary is a good idea.

[MrPhil]

Re: Re: How the h@ll do they do it!?

Originally posted by Urban Ranger




If you have seafood you probably should research fishing as a priority. I also think your research sequence is messed up. Ignore the religion until later - unless you want to build Stonehenge. Go with the practical stuff first, techs that let you expand and explore.

In your particular I will go with hunting first (I always go with hunting first), then fishing, mining, pottery (for cottages), bronze working, in that order. If I don't have a coastal start I will postone fishing till later. if there is stone or marble near me masionary is a good idea.

Thanks, I appreciate the advice. I just killed this game and started a new one. Having much more succes with this one. Haven't done the Oracle-CS slinshot before, will have to try that out in my next game.

I was slipping pretty far behind Saladin because I didn't have a good source of $$ whereas he had 3 gold mines between two of his cities. These two cities happened to be on my side of a land choke point so I decided I would not survive unless I got my hands on some gold mines. I built up and army of 5 catapults, 10 Horse Archers, 4 Macemen and 15 Swordsmen to take these two cities. Surprisingly, incoming $$ is not much of a problem anymore.

I just hope I didn't bite off more than I can chew with Saladin and I may have to try and finish him off. Of course Tokoguwa and Monty declared war on me shortly after I declared war on Saladin. But, they have to go through the same choke point to get to me via land or they have to launch a water assault.

[MrPhil]

Re: Re: How the h@ll do they do it!?

Originally posted by Urban Ranger In your particular I will go with hunting first (I always go with hunting first), then fishing, mining, pottery (for cottages), bronze working, in that order. If I don't have a coastal start I will postone fishing till later. if there is stone or marble near me masionary is a good idea.

One question though if you are trying to get the Oracle. Do you go for the religious techs (Meditation or the other one that escapes me) and Priesthood after Bronze Working?

[Willem]

Originally posted by MrPhil
Happy always seems to come out fast in my games.

I've noticed that too. You can usually catch up to her though as she'll getted bogged down after awhile trying to afford all the maintenance. Provided you have the room of course. Another one that's bad for that is Washington, though with him it's pretty tough to keep up with all the cash he's able to generate.

[Nacht]

Re: Re: How the h@ll do they do it!?

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
In your particular I will go with hunting first (I always go with hunting first)

Why would you go for hunting first

Hunting gives you camps and spearmen. Camps are useless unless you start near ivory and spearmen cannot be build until you've got a bronze mine working. The only reason I can think of would be getting archers, but you don't mention archery and there are really more pressing matters when you start.

[Willem]

Re: Re: Re: How the h@ll do they do it!?

Originally posted by Nacht
Hunting gives you camps and spearmen.

It also gives you Scouts and leads to Archery. That's why I go for it first as well. I always have at least one Scout on the go at first in order to dicover as much territory as I can, and find out where the other civs are.

[Nacht]

I mentioned archers and I can't imagine spending my first hammers on a scout.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Nacht
I mentioned archers and I can't imagine spending my first hammers on a scout.

Considering that you can pop several techs from huts and find out where your potential enemies will be coming from, I consider them invaluable. The shelf life of a Scout is so limited, you have to get them out early. By the time the barb Archers start appearing they're already useless.

[Crossfire]

In that I only pop a tech out of a goody hut about 1 game in 4, maybe I should start building a scout. I manage to hit lots of huts in the early game but it is with warriors and I generally get some gold, or most likely a map. The reason I don't build scouts is because they die so easily to barb animals unless you single space move them every turn and that gets old fast.

MrPhil, it is usually feasible to get another tech or two out in between BW and starting down the religious research path. I usually try for ag and pottery so that I can get some cottages started. Occassionally, I will squeak animal husbundry or masonry in there too/instead. The higher up you go in difficulty the smaller your chances are of getting those extras and still getting the oracle built and code of laws researched before the AI does. At noble you pretty much need to be done by about 1000BC to be safe while on Monarch I have seen an AI pop the oracle in 2000BC.

[Tokyo Sexwale]

Detailed guide to the slingshot, by Vel:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=147474

I highly recommend Vel's workshops; I learnt so much from this first one alone.

Once you go slingshot, you'll never go back!

There's another one I'm doing in my current game with Farseer (grab Metal Casting instead of Civil Service) and then build a forge, assign a specialist engineer and wait for a GP engineer to rush the Pyramids. Worked like a charm and I am killing in this game. Even better than Oracle-CS IMO.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Crossfire
In that I only pop a tech out of a goody hut about 1 game in 4, maybe I should start building a scout.

With a Scout I usually get at least 1 free tech, sometimes as many as 3. Plus you tend to get higher gold amounts, and you never get any angry villagers. And it can cover almost twice the territory that a Warrior so you get a much better strategic picture of your terrain. I always build my first cities towards my closest neighbour so it's crucial for me to know where they are.

The reason I don't build scouts is because they die so easily to barb animals unless you single space move them every turn and that gets old fast.

With 100% against animals, Scouts have the exact same odds that a Warrior does against them. The only difference is that they can't attack them. Though they don't usually survive a barb attack, especially Archers. They win quite often against Warriors if they're on a Forest tile though, and they stand a good chance if they're on a forested Hill.

[Crossfire]

I think it is more my lack of taking appropriate action that lets my poor scouts down. Well, and my lack of luck with the RNG (too many times they lose 8 of 10 dice throws even with an advantage)! I often just send scouts on their way while I am much more careful with warriors, so my warriors tend to get placed on hills and across rivers in preperation for attack, while my scouts get caught out all the time.

So that one time where I popped 4 barbarian warriors out of a hut would never happen with a scout?! Cool...

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Willem
With a Scout I usually get at least 1 free tech, sometimes as many as 3. Plus you tend to get higher gold amounts, and you never get any angry villagers. And it can cover almost twice the territory that a Warrior so you get a much better strategic picture of your terrain. I always build my first cities towards my closest neighbour so it's crucial for me to know where they are.

Scouts are very good for collecting information and popping huts. More than a few times I beat a computer player to a hut simply because my scout outmoved its warrior. Not only you get more stuff - even another warrior or a map of the land is good - but you avoid the chance of getting barbarians coming out from the hut and maiming your scout.

I also build my cities forward, so it is nice to know a) where the enemies are and b) where the good sites are.

After you finished surveying the land, you can put them on strategic points (read: forested hills) on sentry to drive back the fog of war.

What I usually do is to make a whole bunch of scouts before the population of my capital hits 3. Then I roll out a worker and start some chopping. Depending on the level I may already have a worker or two from the huts hanging around

[alva]

coming out from the hut and maiming your scout.

Can't happen.

-
You worker comes too late, you need him sooner.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by alva

coming out from the hut and maiming your scout.

Can't happen.

Surely barbarian units can pop out of huts if a warrior unit is used to, hm, pop it.

Originally posted by alva
You worker comes too late, you need him sooner.

Nah. 3 is a good population number. Creating workers and settlers too soon stunts your growth.