How the h@ll do they do it!?

[MrPhil]

Ok, I just started a new game (Noble, Large Map, Continents) as Washington everything else default. I was pretty pleased with my starting position. Coastal with seafood, gold and a river right next door.

To start, I immediately sent out my Warrior to explore while I built a second. My first warrior hit about 2-3 huts getting gold and a map. Not a bad start at all.

I set off researching Mysticism to found either Buddhism or Hinduism.

My first warrior finds the next closet Civ (Haspetuet) and I know I mispelled that. Anywho, the Egyptians were 20+ sqaures away. Plenty of room for expansion I am thinking to myself........WRONG!

In the amount of time it takes me to build 1 archer, 2 more warriors (for 3 total) and a settler, the Egyptians had spawned off to at least 3 if not 4 other cities.

My research order went like this:

Mysticism
Poltheism
Hunting
Mining
Priesthood
Animal Husbandry

I hadn't even completed researching Animal Husbandry yet and I was already down 4 cities to 1 to the Egyptians.

So, what gives? Are they leaving their cities undefended while they expand like crazy or does the AI civs start out with advantages human players do not? I mean before I built my settler and I had only 2 warriors, I got close enough to Thebes to see that they had 2 warriors defending the capital.

Any thoughts? I know the AI gets advantages at higher levels but, I didn't think Noble was that high of a level.

[Crossfire]

Build a worker first and research mining/bronze working. Now start chopping trees down to speed the building of your settlers. Mix a warrior in after every settler (usually one turn with the left over hammers). Chopping is one of the most powerful techniques in Civ4 and if you aren't doing it you are going to get pretty far behind pretty fast. And when you move up to Monarch it is even tougher to stay even without lots of chopping.

[alva]

[q] Are they leaving their cities undefended while they expand like crazy o[/q$

More the other way around.


A noble you should able to keep up with the AI when it comes to expanding ( wether that's a good idea is another thing).

[Solver]

On Noble, the AI doesn't get any production or expansion bonuses. You can indeed keep up with them and outexpand with them, but it might not always be a good idea.

This isn't Civ3 (thankfully), so it's not a simple matter of having more cities meaning you're stronger. I usually start with building another Warrior, if the city is size 2, then a Worker is often appropriate, especially if I will have the tech to improve something by the time he's ready.

[Jaybe]

Is it possible they got some extra-productive goody huts (settlers, etc.)?

[unamablebuiler]

umm i play washington on prince have won on noble though.

washington should be able to out expand hatshepsut he is financial arganised +1 comerce for squares with more that 2 commerce and - 50 percent city maint cost

i have stopped going for early religion its a big gamble with washington esp with 2 spiritual civs with mysticism

i build 2 warriors then city grows then a worker now though a settler will be better if there is no chops available.
research goes
wheel
pottery
mining
bronze
to archery
writing then go for code of laws through mysticism meditation preisthood code of laws
the worker builds cottages on the river then chops settler second city round 2000 BC third round 1700 BC
new cities build units archers once i get them.
without the save i can't give anything specific

[Arrian]

Consider what the AI is doing. It's generally not prioritizing wonders. It's building military units, workers and settlers. If you did just that you'd out-expand them, or at the very least keep up.

I will often fall behind early because I have a soft spot for the Oracle-CS slingshot and other early wonders. I've played primarily on Prince and often find myself with 2 cities to the average AI's 4. But I tend to catch up pretty quickly. Given some room, I'll pass them. Plus I'll have wonders and stuff

4 cities in that time frame does sound fast, though. Maybe Happy got a really juicy start spot in that particular game?

-Arrian

[MrPhil]

Thanks for the ideas guys, will go back at it with a fresh mind to see what I can do. I just had high hopes when I started the game and then ugh.......

[MrPhil]

Originally posted by Arrian
Consider what the AI is doing. It's generally not prioritizing wonders. It's building military units, workers and settlers. If you did just that you'd out-expand them, or at the very least keep up.

I will often fall behind early because I have a soft spot for the Oracle-CS slingshot and other early wonders. I've played primarily on Prince and often find myself with 2 cities to the average AI's 4. But I tend to catch up pretty quickly. Given some room, I'll pass them. Plus I'll have wonders and stuff

4 cities in that time frame does sound fast, though. Maybe Happy got a really juicy start spot in that particular game?

-Arrian

Happy always seems to come out fast in my games. One of these days I am going to learn to take her butt out ASAP!

Question, what is the CS in the Oracle-CS you mentioned?

[Arrian]

Civil Service. There are lots of threads on the various "slingshots" in the strat forum, if you want to check it out.

Hap looks big early in part b/c she's creative. Those free border expansions grab territory. She might be a paper tiger, though

I whacked her early with chariots in one game. I was playing as Roosevelt, IIRC. She started close and hemmed me in, so she had to go.

-Arrian

[MasterDave]

He is talking about performing the Civil Service Slingshot. This is where basically you more or less beeline your research to code of laws, and build the Oracle, timing its completion so that you get code of laws a turn or two before finishing the Oracle. Then you use the free tech from the Oracle to grab Civil Service, which gives you Beuracracy, effectively doubling the research and production of your capital very early in the game. When it works, it will give you a powerful tech lead on the AI (tech lead on noble level, allows you to keep pace on Monarch and Emperor) and the ability to build many wonders in your capital faster. You also wind up founding Confuscianism, and sometimes Buddhism or Hinduism on your way to Code of Laws.

It does tend to leave you rather defenseless early on, and I generally do not have time to get more than one worker and one settler when following this path.

There are much more detailed descriptions of this technique in this forum, some with nifty screenshots and turn-by-turn walkthroughs.

[Arrian]

This is where basically you more or less beeline your research to code of laws, and build the Oracle, timing its completion so that you get code of laws a turn or two before finishing the Oracle.

Actually, if you can, the very same turn. Tech goes before production, so you get CoL, then the Oracle completes and you pick CS.

-Arrian

[Crossfire]

Whenever practical (almost always) I will get a second city going early even when building the Oracle. From the second city I can spam more settlers or start working on my military if I deem that is more important. Doing the CS Slingshot does not need to leave you defenseless, a smaller army than someone who prioritizes military, but not defenseless.

[Badtz Maru]

Originally posted by Jaybe
Is it possible they got some extra-productive goody huts (settlers, etc.)?

Huts don't give settlers or workers on Noble and higher difficulty levels.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Badtz Maru
Huts don't give settlers or workers on Noble and higher difficulty levels.

Not for you.