Babarians or not Babarians

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Dis
But they can be very tough on certain maps.

Defently... Being on a large continent alone, playing on marathon speed makes barbarians very tough

[djpsychonaut]

Originally posted by Jaybe
Standard Barbs on Epic/Marathon Noble Huge Continents.
But ...
I've modified HandicapInfo.xml so that barb creation is the same as on Monarch,
No iFreeWinsVsBarbs (I think this is like First Strikes), and
most important: player and AI animal/barbarian bonuses are all ZERO.

With no barbarian combat bonuses, barbs do not favor me as a target over the AI and they are a potential real challenge to all parties. They also may hinder AI growth (which I occasionally need).

I didn't realize that it was a built-in element of the game that the Barbs prefer the human player over the AI, but it is consistent with what I've seen.

I usually play with Barbs on Standard otherwise I'd get so far behind militarily.

So, modifying the HandicapInfo.xml file as you mention above will make the Barbs dole out the abuse equally?

[Dis]

barbs don't just go after the humans. They go after everyone. It just depends on how the map is set up. Usually the human doesn't start too close to other AI's. So that leaves a lot of empty space for barbs to appear.

My last/current game was on a desert map. The barbs were a little scary at first. Despite researching bronze working right after getting my religion (Hinduism), I still couldn't get copper hooked up before the first axeman appeared. Luckily he went right for my city and died attacking my skirmisher. I wouldn't have been able to do anything had he pillaged everything. It was a little scary at first. But now they are no problem. It's the aggressive AI's that are giving me a headache now.

[Urban Ranger]

If you are playing raging barbarians, it may be a good idea not to improve anything except roads until you've got copper or iron (clearly, you need to build a mine there and guard it with your life). Barbarians rarely pillage roads.

[Dis]

maybe I spoke too soon. Lately the barbs have been a problem. But perhaps I'm not focussing on getting my copper connected fast enough. It just seems there isn't much gap between warrior barbs and axemen barbs. I managed not to lose any cities last game, but it was close. And I was playing a continents map, but it was a big continent. But I fell way behind, and gave up my game. I was ahead of the Indians on my continent. But once I discovered the other civs, I found out I was way, way behind. . I'm just not sure if I'm good enough to overcome a 700 point difference. And I can't attack the Indians, because I'm still trying to overcome the maintenance costs of the size of my empire right now. Which pisses me off to no end. As I'm playing noble, but the AI has no problem handling larger empires and still outresearching me.

I still can't explain why some games I do well, and some games I don't. My starting position didn't seem that bad. I had one cow resource and 4 floodplains squares in my city radius.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Dis
As I'm playing noble, but the AI has no problem handling larger empires and still outresearching me.

You need to watch your $$$. The CS Slingshot really helps if you pull it off. CoL lets you build courthouses - something you should build in all your cities except the capital. Bureaucracy gives you massive bonus in your capital. It's something worth trying. Another early wonder that is worth trying for is the Pyramids. Representation gives you a powerful boost in research.

Originally posted by Dis
My starting position didn't seem that bad. I had one cow resource and 4 floodplains squares in my city radius.

That's quite nice. You should put up some cottages and watch the $ roll in.

[Dis]

yeah I know I waited too long getting currency and courthouses. I may have to think my tech advances. I should have held off on iron working and metal casting and got those first. As I found out last game, produciton doesn't mean **** if you have nothing to build.

[Generaldoktor]

I agree with the fellow that likes to take Barb cities and save on settlers, but the temptation can be too great and then you get too stretched, which then makes me sympathize with the fellow who ran out of money. Sending out search and destroy groups after you reach a certain level of stability works great, but when you find that great Barb city with the gems and bananas 10 grids down that's been pumping all those axemen at you; and take it; (they're usually defended only by 3 or less archers, even on raging, as they send everybody else at intervals after the civs; they get city walls though, after a while, bring catapaults; ) you have to "just say no," about keeping it.

Raze the sucker, take the pillage and trek on to the next trouble spot. This and the other technique, mentioned by others here, to just set up "hill bunkers" on the borders, which they generally gravitate to, is my method of dealing with raging Barbs and all variations therein. Of course, I rarely play above Noble difficulty.

These things should work beyond that level though, at least to some extent. I like two archers and an axe for the frontier "bunkers" and even though I agree that forts are largely useless in Civ4, I will put one on the hill if its not forested (or if I've "chopped" it for a higher cause) and not otherwise exploited it for resources. Every little bit helps.

I also run roads to them, because, as was said, Barbs don't pillage roads and the bunker guys can then get off easy and fight a mobile action if some Barb trys to bypass them, as occasionally happens. This is also why I use three to a hill, besides healing time. (Horse Archer/Keshiks are a tremendous help if you got 'em, but I have trouble getting horses as a resource on higher levels.) Adopting the "bunker" i.e. fortified frontier hill strategy, early can get you in position to set up the "search and destroy" groups later, which I think is the final answer to Barbs holding back your Civ. By the time knights and/or macemen roll around, Barbs should be as rare as dinosaurs (Dinobarbs?) and if not, maybe there's something wrong with your game, at whatever level.

I'm surprised to learn Barbs are suspected of sparing AI. In the big map games I like to play, especially on Highlands (see below) and also Ice Age, it appears they do hold back everybody and I think the AI gets "frustrated" in a machine-like way by it, as they seem to be more secretive about their borders and ask for tech more; I think they send more scouts too to see if you are doing as bad as they, which I usually am on a Marathon, Huge, Highlands/Ice Age, Noble game till I get my search and destroy mojo going. It is interesting to hear this about modifying the bonuses to scent the Barbs off on the AI further, though; I might try it, though unlike many, I dislike messing with the editor.

I don't know of any game on these big maps above Farmboy difficulty, where they aren't going to be a big problem for everybody though. If you really want to court trouble , play Huge Highlands with Raging Barbs, any difficulty, though I guarantee you're going to feel like you're one difficulty level up with these settings.

The mountains, especially with chained peaks (or whatever they're called,) are going to section off large areas of the map into "hidden valleys." Barb cities propagate like mad, as do spontaneous Barbs, sometimes right after you move through. The "human" waves coming at you (and IMO, the AI) are like Space Invaders meets Starship Troopers for the first 2000 years. Various tech "slingshots" and AI choke/rush are out (of the question,) Jack, save your skin!

You might get from this that I'm really into playing with Barbs Right on! They're like the "Twelfth Man."

I both love them and fear them