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**UnOrthOdOx** · February 21, 2006, 13:00

The AI in the late game goes all out irrigation and popping great people like mad. You've probably seen the 'so and so born someplace' popping up seemingly every other turn.

This amounts to VERY cheap techs for the AI by burning these people for tech, and/or boosted production from golden ages.

So, yes, you probably pump out more raw tech than anyone else, hence the demographics. However, never underestimate the instant 2000+ beakers from a Science leader every few turns from that size 28 AI city cranking out several hundred GP points. This won't show on the demographics anywhere.

As to what you're doing 'wrong'. You don't want to ask me unless you want the answer to be 'you're not smacking them early or hard enough with your vastly superior military'.

Seriously, options are copycatting, and setting up several GP pumps, being much larger with allot of financial improvements, military conquest/military pruning, or nukes.

**Shaka II** · February 21, 2006, 13:23

Good explanation. I've definitely noticed this phenomenon, but have been at a loss to put my finger on the reason. It seems tied to growth, which the AI focuses on, and Biology is usually a key tech for them. I like it to an exponential growth, not in just size and tech, but in military growth also, which usually occurs at about the onset of the late Industrial era or early modern era.

This is not much of a problem anymore for me though, being the warmonger on marathon, as I don't let games go into the modern era anymore. Keep the AI fighting amongst themselves if you see one or two civs starting to break away from the pack, and that means starting from the early medieval era, before they get to be huge. You'll need some serious bargaining power to bribe civs though, and must be flexible with your choice for religion.

A few more tips, don't trade alphabet or CS unless another civ has it already, and maybe not even then. That will delay their tech development, while you surge ahead in tech, acquiring serious bargaining power for the medieval era, when you can create discord amongst the leaders. Every game I start out at the bottom of the heap and rise to the top by mid game or shortly after

If you're playing SS win, then you can use the same ploys to keep the AI from surging ahead, you just don't need to take 2/3 of everyone over, but acquiring one or two neighboring civs certainly goes a long way.

**Quillan** · February 21, 2006, 14:22

The AI also goes cottage crazy, and about the middle/late period border all those have matured into towns, so they rake in the commerce. I think the primary thing though, is AI tech trading. They will trade tech among themselves at far better terms than they'd ever trade with you. Some of the guys who routinely play and win on the highest levels make a point out of fomenting wars among the AI factions, since they can't trade with their opponents. It slows them down.

**Crossfire** · February 21, 2006, 15:25

I have seen the AI strip all of their population from working the land and pile them all in as specialists. They then start popping GPs like crazy. They do slowly starve to death but they are usually close to a win when they do this.

Another option in the late game is to put as many of your own cities on 'research' as possible. Just remember to switch any specialists to scientists before doing this. I often have every city except the few that are building spaceship parts on nothing but research for the last 50-100 years. Only when I can build a labratory or something useful will I switch off, but then switch back asap. This pops my research rate up by a huge percentage and keeps me ahead of the AIs that are probably doing the same thing. Obviously your military power had better be sufficient before doing this wholesale.

**Brizey** · February 21, 2006, 16:36

Biology is the enabler. On a well farmed city (say 14 out of 20 squares), it enables 7 more scientists. With the right civics (caste system if needed and pacifism) and good wonders you can pop a GOB of scientists. I have stolen this strat on my slingshot games. I do cottages until biology then switch them all to farms. On a flood plain city you can make insane GP points.

**Loader2k** · February 23, 2006, 09:52

Great advice. Thanks guys.

**johnmcd** · February 23, 2006, 11:25

I've seen the AI stick a farm over a fully developed town often once it's got biology. It seems mad, but I guess it works. You lose 5 commerce or whatever but you gain beakers, gold, gpp, hammers, whatever you want really. It sort of turns it into a fully flexibile wonder tile, because you can have whatever specialist you want.

**Crossfire** · February 23, 2006, 16:38

Check out the thread on gold rushing if you really want some late game power.

**couerdelion** · February 24, 2006, 12:36

Late game towns can generate 7 gold while farm+scientist+representation+pacifism will give you 6 beakers + 6 GPP. Despite the fact that GPs are getting expensive, those GPP would have to be worth more than 1/6th gold each so if you can run those two civics it would seem better to dump the town and get yourself a specialist.

Have I missed something glaringly obvious?

**johnmcd** · February 24, 2006, 14:39

Originally posted by couerdelion
Late game towns can generate 7 gold while farm+scientist+representation+pacifism will give you 6 beakers + 6 GPP. Despite the fact that GPs are getting expensive, those GPP would have to be worth more than 1/6th gold each so if you can run those two civics it would seem better to dump the town and get yourself a specialist.

Have I missed something glaringly obvious?

Towns generate commerce, not gold. That commerce can run through libararies, universities, observatories, labs and come out as a lot more than 7 beakers.

**Crossfire** · February 24, 2006, 15:28

Also, gold rushing is using gold to generate units and buildings as opposed to using hammers. A town can generate a lot more gold than a mine or workshop can generate hammers.

**Yosho** · February 24, 2006, 15:28

Originally posted by johnmcd

Towns generate commerce, not gold. That commerce can run through libararies, universities, observatories, labs and come out as a lot more than 7 beakers.

Yeah, but so does income from specilists; that runs though libraries and such as well.

Anyway, you're right that it's better to run farms+specilists in the city or cities you're making great people in (usually 2 at the most); but extra GP points in some other random will probably never make you an extra great person, so they're basically useless.

Still, specilists under representation give you the advantage of more flexability in what you want to make in one city for one turn then a town does, so that's one advantage.

**rjmatsleepers** · February 25, 2006, 01:55

Originally posted by couerdelion
Late game towns can generate 7 gold while farm+scientist+representation+pacifism will give you 6 beakers + 6 GPP. Despite the fact that GPs are getting expensive, those GPP would have to be worth more than 1/6th gold each so if you can run those two civics it would seem better to dump the town and get yourself a specialist.

Have I missed something glaringly obvious?

The OP wanted to increase the research rate in the late game. Even on your figures the late game towns are generating more research. And in the late game, there may not be enough time to get a significant benefit from extra great people. Also, choosing free speech rather than pacifism will give your research a 10% boost in all cities.

I still need convincing that there is a research benefit in building farms on my towns, using specialists and switching to pacifism compared with maintaining my towns and choosing free speech.

RJM at Sleeper's

**Blake** · February 25, 2006, 04:13

Late game cottages are the bees-knees.

The utility of watermills, farms, workshops and such in the late game is in making newly acquired (or pillaged) territory immediately profitable.

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